Australians at War Film Archive

Thus far. Well my name is Clement Neville Govett and I’m well known as Neville. I was born in St Kilda, Victoria on 14 October, 1915…

remember the end of the First World War as though it happened yesterday. And my father was Clement Henry Govett, mother Catherine Patterson and I have a sister Gwen, 6 years and 4 months older than I, and they’ve all gone now, my wonderful family. I may go back. My grandfather was born in

1799, can you believe that? I believe I’m the oldest grandson of a colonist living in Australia. We’ve tried to find others but no. My grandfather came from Somerset, Stringeton and he sailed from Brisbane to Van Deiman’s land which of course, is Tasmania.

And he had property allotted to him and he was a wealthy man and oh, he had a thousand pounds and that was like a million. A million dollars perhaps, I don’t know. Anyway, he went to Ashcombe which is 10 miles out of Hobart. I’ve been there and it’s more or less a town now yet a lot of people don’t know it in

Tasmania. I’ve been there a couple of times and wait on, I was there a third time, a couple of years ago, but may I say this about my grandfather. Of course, I’d never met him but he had, went back to England married a girl and they came back to Tasmania

and she had 12 children. Wacko! See, and they were on a property and he owned Austens Ferry which is still operating. He was a post master, a vittler [victualler], that’s not bad ‘cause I’m a strict non-drinker and some other job he had, I don’t know what else.

But one of his son’s became a member of parliament in Queensland eventually. No pay! Can you imagine today, I’ll have to tell the government that – no pay and, then they had horse riding interests. Why I’m keeping on the story of my grandfather is that he met John Batman who

allegedly discovered Melbourne. My grandfather was there before John Batman, I can’t prove it so I never worry. Now, my grandfather is George Govett JP [Justice of the Peace], married ah pardon me, he bought Batman’s property and I have photo’s. I will show you later and he then went to

Melbourne and decided that he would settle in Victoria, and he went back to Tasmania for a while, and Batman by this time, was in Melbourne with Faulkner and then he took his family from Hobart Town, ah, Hatchicomb at Hobart Town across to

Melbourne and to Brighton. May I go back one stage, he came from England on the Aquila and arrived on about 6 February, 1824, only a young man, see and I realise that my story is getting a little jumbled but I, the way it goes. Well he went first into Lancefield

and then he bought a 40 square mile property at Kyneton, Dad was born there. Well, that’s 50 miles north of Melbourne and my fabulous father, wonderful man took me to, came with Mum and my sister, 1936, and showed us the property. It’s still there, National Trust.

And, the owners of the property now, make me so welcome it doesn’t matter. It’s wonderful. I’ve been there many times. Well, I went out to the cemetery and saw his grave but I again have to go back. He lost his wife when she was 45 and he

buried her with a most elaborate grave site at Kyneton and again I will show you a photo of it, and I was a young boy of 21 and Dad was 53 years older than I, and he was very pleased at my leading towards his mother, his father see and

we…I used to go quite regularly to Kyneton and I would always make an effort to go out and see her grave so one day a few years ago, I decided this is no good we’ve got to do something about it and I spent a lot of money and the grave was beautifully restored, magnificent. And then I decided

that if we could round-up any of the family we would and we’d get together. So we went out to the grave site, there must have been 30 or 40 of us. See a big family, and I’m very pleased to say that Dame Elizabeth Murdoch was there. Now she’s, I believe Elizabeth is a great grand-daughter

of my grandfather of which you see, in a second I’ll again, tell you about that in a moment. She is from the first family because at 45, when the wife died, old George married again. And he, see I hope I’m not confusing you. I’m getting a little astray. He married Jane Geraldine Boyce, his second

wife and she was the daughter of the ooh, I don’t think he was a Bishop but he was high in the Anglican Church of Collingwood, Collingwood parish. And that’s right, I was at St Pat’s, the Catholic Cathedral, it’s the Eastern Hill Church. Now, oh dear I do feel embarrassed that I got this slightly mixed up.

Anyway, Elizabeth was from the first family and then, the second family came along but he wasn’t being beaten old Dad, old Grandpa. He had 8 children in the second marriage see, big deal and my dad was from there. Now my dad was born in 1862.

Yeah, but wait a minute. We’re not on, are we?

We are.

Ready?

Well my dad, I have so many family we’re jumping around aren’t we. My wonderful old dad

stayed on the property in Kyneton until his father died and then when George Govett died, my grandfather died, the property was sold out and the family had to get out. The family mind you, 20 of ‘em I think, moved out see and Dad was about 40ish, 42, I

think, and he went to Melbourne and he lived with his uncle. I don’t know how this arised, I never found this out. But he lived at the lunatic asylum in Kew, Uncle McClure, and he was the master of lunacy. Dreadful titles aren’t they. I mean, you can’t

believe the way things were but Dad used to quietly tell me, and he did it in Kew for a while. Then he had a younger brother. Now, the idea was that Dad had to be married off you see, couldn’t have Dad not married. So, he was taken one day with his brother to a house in Windsor, in Melbourne, and where he met

two sisters, the Misses Jones. Very uncommon name you see so, I don’t think my family realised how I picked this up and I have a fairly good memory you see and Dad told me that he said to his brother, “Are there any pretty girls here?” And his brother said, “Oh you’re right, Clem.” I was told all this - Dad with his

walking stick and gloves, ‘shoot the linen’. Have you ever heard that? ‘Shoot the linen’ meaning you have a starched cuff on your shirt, and he used to go like that and the cuff would come out and show the line of the coat you see. Shoot the linen.

Shoot the linen, yes and cufflinks, never mind buttons, cufflinks! See, so apparently Dad,

who walked very brilliantly, I know because I could see it in the older age, Dad went with his brother and met the girls and time marched on, and Dad went back and saw them again and there was a very pretty little girl there, a maid I think she was, a servant girl and everybody was saying which girl will Dad choose. He chose the maid

and he married her. So I am the son of a very, very pretty housemaid and Dad married a maid. He was 42 and I think she was 23, and of course, shock horror! Dad has married the maid! Oh she was perfect. With all her funny little ways, I reckon she was one of the most wonderful women in the world. She was

very dominant and so forth, so that’s how my Dad met my mother and they were married in a Presbyterian church in North Carlton, Nicholson Street. I don’t think it has services there now. So, anyway that was in 1904 and Dad and Mum went to live in East Melbourne, not far from the cricket ground

and, well that’s how life began. So, Dad and Mother 1909, yes, in 1909 had a little baby born to them. My sister, beautiful red hair and Mavis Reugene Govett, and she lived with them

and then there was a break, I don’t know what went on but… 1915 ah, the great one was born. That’s me of course see, and the war was on and so forth, and it’s rather amazing. I can distinctly remember 1917. I think this is a freak. I was carried

in the arms of Norman Vixon, the shoe man. He was a relative by marriage and I was carried along a beach in or around the Portsea area, now why do I remember that? 1917?

Being carried and a shell. I remember a shell being picked up. Just a freak, you know, because I can remember that.

Ah, yes, see this forehead mark? That was a gash that I got, nearly killed me on the Domain in Melbourne where the Shrine now stands. Swamp, an old swamp and they, all the guns had been brought back from France and that sort of thing, and I was with my dad, mum and sister and I

fell, and my head was badly damaged. It was a wonder it didn’t knock my brains out and I had to wear a leather guard for 4 years around my head. You can see the stitches now. I think if I’d have been killed, my father would’ve died on the spot, he was very fond of me. So, I always remember my mum and dad said, “Huh, the war. Well,

don’t worry the war to win all wars has been fought.” And I never had anything to do with the army. It was as much as I would do to go to an Anzac Parade. It didn’t interest me. I was not warlike and of course that’s… I came into the world 1918. I remember my mother saying to my sister in the kitchen of our old home, “The war has ended and all the soldier

boys will be coming home,” and I said, “Huh, what does that mean?” And, mother didn’t say much. Mother was very dictatorial and then, the man who lived opposite, Percy Bishop a soldier who came to visit Dad and Mum when he came home, and I was there, a little boy I suppose. I didn’t know what they were talking about. One day I had a book, a little book

and it was the [HMAS] Sydney, shooting down on the emblem and I said, “Oh, Mother. Look at this ship on fire.” And she said, “Oh, that was the war.” And I said, “What?” “The war,” she said. It didn’t mean anything to me.

No, no before I went to school. Yes,

No, they didn’t. No, no, no. Oh, education in those days

was, in my opinion, very poor. Well, I became a teacher and they had very little interests. There used to be some kiddies wore their fathers medals and you were sort of crunched if your father didn’t, if you didn’t have medals. Oh yes, yes. My dad was here, my dad was that and all sort of thing. My dad was 53 when I was born, see. I’m very outspoken on this.

Medals never interested me until 49 years after the war, the second war and I was taken to a dinner and given them. Amazing isn’t it? Now let’s not get too far ahead. Well, I remember my early life, all the odd relatives, all these 8 children and 20 what or something, from the first lot there was 12, and I remember as a little child

I would meet them and they were always very nice to you. Not “little boy go away” but I met Dad’s first family, Edmund Govett a man who was a bit too keen on horse racing. Lost 100,000 pounds! 100,000 pounds he lost, on horse racing. I’d given the cup away to a relative, the Reindeer Cup, they had a wonderful

horse called Reindeer and I think it was up here, at the Barcoo and Dad was a very well respected member of the family. He had a sister Ellen, whom I knew well, Desi, Desima, and he had a brother Bill, William Govett whom I knew and there was Norman Park and then he had a,

a sister Flora, whom I never met. She went to Canada and… Mrs Blakey and she is very generous. She even remembered me in her will. She gave me $1,500 Canadian dollars and they’re worth 4 and tuppence each a dollar. Oh no, I think it was more, I think it was more. I’m going back too far. And one sister died and Dad’s

mother is buried in St Kilda, and I have arranged and it is there now, a memorial to her family, I’ve got it all there and I’ve also included my sister’s husband and my wife there on the tablet because I want to.

No, no, no. Anglican. Very strict Anglican.

Yes, I wasted four years of my life at Melbourne Grammar. Four years I wasted. I still have a word with them now, but oh, it was dreadful when I was there.

Well, Heather [Interviewer] we, may I just go back a little bit. After the war, and

I could remember soldiers that used to talk about the war and so forth, we went through to the 1920’s and 1927 my mother and father said they were going to send me to another school and I said, “Oh, Caulfield Grammar?” “No, Melbourne Grammar!” And I said, “Oh no.” I didn’t want to go and they said I would have to go to Melbourne

Grammar. Other relatives were at Geelong and Wesley. Oh, we were well up in the going to school basis. A bit of snob value, really, and I went to Grimwade House in Caulfield, which is Melbourne Grammar and the Headmaster was very nice and his wife, but teaching no, no it was hopeless.

You were favoured or not favoured and believe me, I wasn’t favoured. I’m quite outspoken about it.

Don’t think Dad had the background. Don’t think Dad had the background.

Oh, it was old… wearing the ol’ school tie as it were? I love talking about it because that’s what happened and I’m not going to tell you

a false story, I want to tell you the actual story,

and I’m now one of the oldest of the school, like one of the very old boys. I’m so bitter about it that I wouldn’t join the Old Grammarians. I still speak to them now and give them a few dollars but it’s a very different way of life now. Oh no, and “What’s your father’s

occupation?” Of course, if your poor ol’ Dad wasn’t a grazier or the general bloody manager of some firm, you got nowhere. I’m telling you and I hope that this gets through to people. Head of the River, you know the rowing, cricket and Australian rules football, not for me. No, maybe I’m a bit cheerful and going on a bit but never mind. Then in

1927, ’28 and ’29 I was at Grimwade House. Now 1929 was the Depression years and do you young people, I say I hope you never, never, ever see a Depression. I would be given a handful of crusts for my meal and Mrs Jones and Mrs Smith used to swap food and you’d give

people gifts and you’d go and help ‘em. You worked together. Not like today. I’m sorry, not like today. Oh, they were hard years, hard years and my father was out of work. He was an electrical mechanic by now and I always said to mother, “Why did you force me to go to Melbourne Grammar?” I wasn’t getting anywhere, I wasn’t getting… See, you

wore your dark blue and your little peaked cap. Skull caps they called ‘em. Whereas city boys wore purple, Geelong College wore blue and green band, they didn’t wear their full green. Geelong Grammar wore their light blue, Davy boys wore their black. I remember it well.

I think that’s why, my life, but it didn’t work

out.

No, no. That didn’t enter it at the time but I think that mother liked to be able to say that her son was at Melbourne Grammar. Very snobbish you know, ‘cause I didn’t give a stuff. Anyway, in 19, well things at the school were so that, such that

boys would leave in the middle of the term. Semesters I think they call them now. Because they had to get a job, to get a job at 19 shillings a week was wonderful. $1.90 a week for pay and see, some boys did well. Others, I do know this, that parents, some parents couldn’t afford to pay but if the boy was, showed any

signs of academic brilliance, they would keep him there, the school would keep him without pay. I suppose this will shock some people. As if I care, I’m doing alright. Anyway, the Depression was dreadful. Then I worked as a clerk, a damned clerk in an office and some of the fellows used to say to me,

“So you’re a Melbourne Grammar boy?” And I’d say, “Oh yes,” and they’d say, “Oh yeah, yeah.” You know, you’d be pushed. Some days you’d be pushed but you’d be pushed back, see. And then you meet boys from other colleges and they, they were all friendly and you used to talk about the days when your school won the Head of the River and so forth, anyway, things were so grim. Now I used to argue

a lot with my mother. She dominated me, you see and she dominated Dad too. And, I said to her when 1931 came, “Don’t attempt to send me back to school because I’ll take my cut lunch,” it was all cut lunch jobs and I said, “I will go to the city, I will not go to school,” so I left. It was rather sad because

you like to look back on your school. Mind you, I’m talking of when Australia had a population of 8 million people. Not like today with all multi-culturalism.

No, no. I was just a wild colonial boy, wild colonial boy

and you used to put up your hand to ask a question and they’d ignore you. Silly buggers. Ratbags. Headmaster had a loss of his heart too. He might have been caught up in this present situation, that’s how I feel. Anyway, let’s talk of happier things. Well, I went then and worked

for a company for four years. I hated every day of it and on the 16 January, 1936 I got the big “A” and if you don’t know what that is, I got sacked.

Well, put it this way. In plain terms dear, I got the arse and that’s the big “A”. That’s the best thing that’s

ever happened to me. It pushed me out to the world and not being a boy going off to work every day, I learnt the hard way and I got the bumps and the elbows, I had to work hard. I swept a theatre without seats, it was a studio. Five shillings a day, 50 cents and I had a broom and I swept it.

Oh, I had ten shillings to my name, one dollar and it was in my little bank book and my sister, who was favoured in my family, favoured, she got everything and had my dad’s love. That was the important thing and she, I said to her one day, we went to do (UNCLEAR) “Look that’s all I’ve got

left.” She was very sad. I said, “If I don’t survive or I die or I’m killed I want you to put that in my pocket and bury me with it,” and she burst into tears. She realised just how much… Oh, they were dreadful the other boys, oh dreadful. You’d meet boys that didn’t know which way to turn, didn’t know which way to turn. Some people were nice to you and some people would ignore you.

So, that’s just a little of the Depression. I was very lucky, I got a job as a picture theatre usher with a torch and showed people around and my mother tried to stop me. I said, “I’ve got to have something Mother.” You see by now I’m creeping up to 24 and I’d become a member of the Melbourne Cricket Ground and, I don’t know where the

monies came from and I, I paid these up and Bill wanted the great cricketer, Bevans, Colley. He was what the Don wanted, he was wonderful and I used to play on the Melbourne ground and then I played for St Kilda, low level teams of course, and

that was my only outlet and people would always say, “Oh, I’ll try and get you a job, son.” You see I made mistakes. Don’t think I didn’t make mistakes. But oh, it was hard, hard.

I’ll tell you why. Poor ol’ Mum.

She was, when we were in Depression she was magnificent. She worked her hands to the bone to keep our family going but mother had this craziness, she’s just come from a little servant girl, she lives in a hut, no shoes or socks and no floor. That’s what it was in those days. Oh, I admire her for everything but she would hold

me down and she dominated me, but I love her very much. Nobody can say anything against my mum because she was wonderful. Well you see 53, and 31, that sort of thing. She was 35 when I was born. Wouldn’t tell you anything. Oh no, no. I did this, that and the other. Oh, she’d have that remarkable memory.

Oh, they were happily married. Mum dominated it but that’s it. Dad would say to me, “Come son, I’ll take you to the cricket.” Two shillings, 20 cents and we’d go and stand in a queue half a mile long to get in to see England play. Those were the days, yes the good ol’ days, the good ol’ days. Well I felt I had to break

and I got this camera in 1933. I don’t know where I got the money, oh yes, I sold wattles, sold wattles to get it.

Bottles.

Sorry.

My old mouth, you see.

You really want to know?

Oh… yes, yes, a penny each, 1 penny, yes

and sold newspapers. You see Heather, you’re at an age group that unless I tell you, you will never know these things happened.

That’s why I’m so keen on this and thank you for doing this for me. Oh yes, I had some wonderful friends.

I never had any film for it for a long time but that camera went

every where with me. Oh, Channel 7 here had me on the screen one time. You might get a chance to see it to before you go. I’ll show it to you. It would be worth staying all night. But, I had this ability, I suppose I can skite, I’d been paid the compliment from Canberra of being told that mine are the best ever of films they had

and I learnt it all myself. It used to be wonderful. Go on…

Well, the bottles. The bottles got the film. That’s how I made my film of the Melbourne cable trams which today is a national treasure. So, you get to meet other people but I never had a penny to spend,

conductors used to let me ride free on the trams.

Because they were sorry for me. Oh, the comradeship during the Depression years was magnificent. Yeah.

Oh, there were times when, well we were lucky. Dad had sufficient money to

buy the home and we weren’t caught for rent but... Oh, this may interest you, my mother would go shopping as did all the ladies around the district, and they had their shopping bags. No plastic bags and you’d pay 2 pennies and 4 pennies for vegetables. Potatoes were 10 cents for 40 pounds. I remember

going down the street and buying a bag of potatoes for my mother and carrying it home. She had 40 pounds of potatoes. Another thing. We’re just not getting ahead now. We’re not. Our local butcher named Williams. God, I can see it now. H.G. Williams... would give you a cabbage if you spent a shilling in his shop.

All the cabbages, and they wouldn’t wrap ‘em so that people would see you carrying the cabbage along Carlisle Street, Balaclava where I lived and… “We must go to Mr Williams and get 10 cents worth of meat,” shillings, “and you’ll get the free cabbage.” My mother once walked from home to a shop in

Prahran. She walked. She didn’t have the pennies to go on the tram and one night Dad said, “This is a new type of bread.” Mother said, “It’s good bread, eat it.” And what she’d done was, she knew that a butcher in Chapel Street, Prahran was giving away a loaf of bread, about 680 ounces, tin loaves they used to call ‘em, tin

loaves, white. I wouldn’t eat white bread now. And, if you spent 1 shilling and 2 pennies, he gave you this loaf of bread, and she went and she got 1 shilling and 2 pennies worth of bread, ah meat, and we had it with a loaf of bread. Oh yes, nothing… gimmicks, gimmicks galore, anything. Oh yes, that’s how we lived. And you asked me what’d they eat?

Well mother, mince meat was a great thing, mince and potato and a vegetable and my mother could have won 20 pounds. She produced a meal for 6 pennies for 4 people. Can you believe that? See. And, she was too proud to put her name down. She could have won 20 pounds, my

god! Oh, good lord. That’s what you pay to go to the football now for one seat except me. I look for a Free Pass, see. Anyway, we had oh, celery. Now celery used to carry a green top or it does. They didn’t cut the top off and push it away, they put the leaves in and mother would soak it for 2 days

and then we’d have the celery and a bit of margarine and salt and pepper and that, that was your vegetable. Oh yes, yes. I was feeling pretty well then, oh yes and there were some people, they just simply, well, they didn’t have anything, some of ‘em. Bread was 4 pennies a loaf, 30

cents a loaf, see. On a Saturday night we had a loaf, a, I forget what they call them now. There’s sprinkling of seeds on them, poppy seeds I think. I used to call it Rose Birtle and I used to have 2 slices, oh yes. Oh,

things were bad.

Oh, I’ll never forget the Depression no, I’ll never forget my unemployment.

Yes, Hitler. Well you see, today with mobile phones and television and aeroplanes, which I don’t travel in, I hate them.

You waited a long time for news to come and we had friends, including German friends who were talking about this Hitler fellow and I used to call them the Nasis and somebody said to me one day, “Neville its Nazi.” I said, “Oh yes,” and they showed me the swastika with the double cross. And no,

there was never going to be another war and I more or less took it as pomp and ceremony, but we didn’t talk much about it. We’d get the occasional German, oh not occasional, quite a lot of German Jewish people coming into the country and they were fleeing. Then I had a German friend who lived in Warburton in Victoria and he was a good Australian citizen

but nevertheless, he was German and he took his wife and son to Germany in about 1933/4 and no, it might have been later, and the son came back, foolishly made a statement, “I’m very impressed with Germany,” and my mother said to him, “But, Lloyd you are a German boy,”

and ooh, the goosestepping and the Nazi salute, ooh this boy was very carried away, and he was talking about the wonderful times he had in Germany with his father. The language barrier, but no language barrier, see. And I said, “Well what are they up to?” Now by now I was about 23

and we had no army. We had no arms. A few fellows roaming around in uniform and I had nothing to do with the cadets and I said, “If there comes a war, I won’t be worried about it. I’ll join the B-Brigade.” B here when they go and B here when they come back, you see. Oh, a real smartie! So anyway, I mustn’t talk too loudly. I knew

Lloyd quite well and enjoyed my times with him. Then Italy, suddenly went into Eritrea, was it Eritrea, Abyssinia and we couldn’t believe that there was a war. We looked upon it as oh, just something and then Mussolini, the Italian dictator, had two sons I think, and one of them

who was a pilot said, “Bombing of the natives was great sport!” And people didn’t like it, you see. Then we realised that by the time, and all this was coming through in slow reports from Reuters, AAP [Australian Associated Press] and all those people. Couldn’t talk overseas by phone, of course and we’d get the reports that

Germany had marched into the Rhineland and the French wanted to throw them out, but I believe the British said “No,” so, the Germans just walked in. Bluff, bluff. Then they went to Austria and ooh, they overran Austria. They had propaganda, ooh the Nazi’s were evil obviously and,

they were potting everyone. Then they went into Austria and it became Greater Germany. The Austrians watched and signalled, “Heil Hitler.” All the newspaper reports, I’d never been out of Australia at the time, and they had tanks, military tanks and they’d run them into a

gutter and the tanks were made of cardboard. Now this will interest you, they were made of cardboard and people used to say, “Oh, it’s all bluff, they’ve got no real tanks.” Don’t you worry, they had all the real tanks. What happens to all the propaganda. You see, they’d run an occasional one into a bump and the people would see cardboard. Bluff. All

Cardboard, oh, then that’s how they overran Austria. Not as easy, there were shots fired. They murdered one in ten of the Austrian Army I believe, just to show who’s boss. Then the next was Czechoslovakia well then panic stations of course. We could hear that England was arming and travelling through to Germany. Came back

and described Hitler as a ratbag which of course he was but my god, they drew us and then they overran Czecho and we started to think, ooh, this is bad. And then during September we were still complacent and we had a very small army in Australia and the Germans then,

excuse me, decided that they’d go to Poland. You see, they’re spreading out and they went into Poland and I can always remember it. On the 1st of September was a Friday and at midnight I heard news boys “Extra, extra, extra.” I went out and bought a paper at midnight, ‘Nazi

Bombs on Poland’. And Britain and France said they were going to stand up to it. I didn’t think they had any armies to do it, but they did and all day Saturday we talked about it. Then on Sunday I went to Geelong from Melbourne in an old car with a friend and a fellow said to us in Geelong, “I think this could be a war.” We came

home and we were listening to a radio. The Lux play, Lux soap sponsored the broadcasting and at 8:15 they stopped the play and announced that Germany had not answered the, excuse me can you cut… and at 8:15 they announced it

and I think the play stopped. They were very fond, this was a very good item on the radio and then, Bob Menzies was the Prime Minister and he told us what was going on and he said, “Of course Australia is at war.” Now then New Zealand 12 hours later, they went to war. Two weeks later, Canada went to war

and one month later, South Africa. So it was all in and then the war news. We used to get the French moved up on, oh France, France was 3½ hours after England. The idea was that France was on the spot you see, and they had their Maginot line, and I think the war went until May.

September through Christmas and it was becoming known as the Bore War. The Bore War. It was boring everybody see, so Australia said that they would raise a force of 20,000 men and there was a big rush and fellows said to me, “What are you doing?” and I said, “No, I’ll join the army here.” I said, “They’re talking Japan’s being troublesome.”

So, the AIF [Australian Imperial Force] was formed and these 20,000 odd men went to the Middle East, but I’m not quite sure whether they went to the Middle East early in 1940, but Germany on one night in May I think it was, May, yes. I was doing my job, I was in the Reserves

by occupation and the evening news that Germany had gone to do Norway, Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg and were hitting at France, and they overran the small countries in days. Five days for Holland, a Dutch friend of mine was there. He said he couldn’t believe it, and Belgium lasted a week or

so and France held on for a while and then Dunkirk and we realised that a war was on now. And the British and French got out of Dunkirk with their idea of going back behind Paris but we had nothing. We, the allies, had nothing and the Germans just rolled through Paris and

they occupied right to the coast, went right down to Spain, and of course Spain had had a Civil War and Germany had played a big part in it. The Condor Division I think it was, Germany and Italy practised in that civil war. And I rang a girl in Paris the other day. Had a long talk to her and she was amazed that I could remember something.

She was a little girl, she’s 70 now. I wrote to her for her birthday and she wrote back and lovely girl. She said, “I’ve got snow white hair Neville,” and I said, “Cause you had lovely blonde hair when I knew you.” So anyway, it’s lovely to have this friend and she told me that when the German’s occupied Paris, she was with her sister

and they were walking along the no, I don’t think so, Place d’Opera, that’s the one. I’ve been to Paris several times and I like France. I’ve got French background, and a German soldier gave her a sweet as her sister smacked the sweet out of her hand, see anti-German, and she said

as long as she lives, and she’s 70 now, she’ll never forget the look on that young German soldier’s face. He felt, you know, what a hard insult. But that’s the sadness of war you see. Since the German’s, since the war, the German’s have been invited to be in French parades. They had their tank

battalion of some description in the 200th anniversary of the republic. I’m very keen on this sort of thing. That’s why I’ve got the films of it and so forth. Oh, the war, good to think that the enemy could walk, go down the streets and so forth. I’ve been to Germany several times too. My best friend was a German soldier.

Oh, I don’t know we were just

making, oh, making something. I don’t know, I can’t tell you.

Yes, well I wasn’t keen. You see, I knew nothing about the army and I wasn’t keen to rush and tear. I knew nothing about leaving home, it seems ridiculous. Well 21 was an adult and you still said, hello to Mum

and Dad and you lived at home. Then air raid warning nights became, and all that sort of thing, and there were thousands of us like it and then, ok. Drafting to Europe, we, no that was May, ’40, ’40,’40. They were starting to develop an Australian Army and drafting, and

I went in under draft and so forth. Some of my mates went away, didn’t come back, two for that matter but then you see, Germany was going to invade England and they didn’t, they couldn’t. They didn’t look ready, everything was not ready, and I’ll tell you something interesting, I know we’re drifting again. What reserved

occupation? I can’t even remember what we were even making now. We were just told to do this and told to do that. I was polishing brass and your fingers torn to pieces. Then they stopped recruiting, they never had the rifles or all sorts of things. Now, let me pick up myself here… oh yes, then the German’s made the big push on France. They had

nothing to hold them back, nothing to hold them back and the Fifth Column, ya ever heard of it?

Yeah, navy, air force, army, oh some other one and the Fifth Column were the spies and these people behind the lines. Mind you, you know, Germany and France are just like Queensland and New South Wales, about that size you see, next door to one another

and we were still living in isola.., oh we still are, 12,000 miles away and big island and I’m telling a school at Brown’s Place here in Queensland one day, about a year ago, the kids – their mouths were open. The German’s who had infiltrated the French put up big signs

advertising tooth paste and that sort of thing, and they had 24 sheets, those are the big sheets, put up in a 24 block and they put up tooth brushes. Now why a big picture of a toothbrush, and what does that mean? Well as a tooth, I assume this, ‘cause I wasn’t there, but if the brush was that way it was telling the tooth where to go. If it were that way

well that way off. If it was lying down or a girl was pouring tooth paste on to the ad, all meant something. What bastards, weren’t they? But they were coming and that’s how they did it. The German’s only had to march down the road and they knew where to go. Wonderful, really. Fifth Column, Fifth Column.

Yes, I first went to Broadmeadows, which is still an army camp and I was given a giggle suit see, and so forth and the fellows said, “Have you ever been in the military”? And I said, “No, I don’t know anything about it.” And they trained us, marched us

for miles, oh it did you good though. Good food and what else, oh yes, I was in a Petrol Company and they pointed out that Australia now had to build up an army because it was obvious, very obvious. There’s Japan who would strike. I don’t know what info they had but that’s it. And we were going to build up for the war, but

this is in 1940 you see. And then we were listening to the news and I was told that I’d be released for 3 months so, I went back to my job. Then I went back to the army and I got to Bonegilla. Now I made one big mistake, oh I’ve made lots of mistakes in my life, and the army officer said,

“Goodo.” It was all dear sir, no sir, “Can anybody type or do shorthand?” What a fatal mistake I made. I said “Yes.” They grabbed me and I think one of ‘em, “Never mind the guard duties, get back here to headquarters,” and that’s where I stayed for quite a while.

You’d be typing out convoy directions and

so forth and what have you. Now, I realise now how necessary those people are and, of course I was keen to be out in the field and we had convoys from Melbourne to Adelaide endless. And I said, “I’d like to go on one of those.” “You stay here.” And you’d work all night on these things and then telephones were BBRRIINGG,

“Hello, hello, what d’you say? Hello, hello.” Oh dear, oh dear, all because it was all new to me. Then we, I don’t know where, oh yes I know, the Italians came into the war you see. When France was on her knees, the Italians went in and France was in a mess, a dreadful mess and I was still

working in Bonegilla and we built big ordnance depots on the break of gates of the railways. That nearly killed us there, the break of gates because they had to have thousands of men transhipping. If we’d of had the one line there’d have been nothing, see. So, I was on transport duties and I think there was about 3½ thousand men, and the ships used to come into Melbourne

and we’d have to unload them and, I mean that’s where man power goes you see. The railways made a gate that was appalling and we had to build ordnance depots on each, on the border, so that you could rush stuff to Melbourne or rush it to Sydney and Wallangarra, we had to build ordnance depots there, ammunition depots. I think that people are of the opinion that

that the Middle East and that sort of thing, was the ideal place. It takes 30 men or did in those days, to keep one man in the field. It’s like about 40 men to keep an airplane flying on the ground and their manpower was being chewed up and we had no uniform, oh dear oh dear. We were in a mess so, anyway.

Gilko,

Gilko, I had a khaki pair of trousers and a khaki jacket and an old khaki hat, not a digger hat, a khaki hat. And I think rifles were recalled from the unit to send them to the forward line because they didn’t have the rifles. Oh no, you take it. I’m telling you as a fact. I

also have an audio tape of a friend of mine who was a soldier for 30, 40 years and I think he earned 4 shillings a day. Darwin Force, see. And, then we had to build things here and there. Depots all over the place that had to be built and eventually when the Japanese came into war. Let me jump ahead for a moment, Togo,

the Japanese prime minister through a notorious girl called Tokyo Rose who spoke over the air every night to the Australians and so forth, “I’ve got 60,000 prisoners in Australia and I don’t have to feed them.” You see, we couldn’t send everybody away. You had to defend Australia, the size of Europe and more. People don’t seem to

understand that. They really don’t understand that.

Pardon.

Oh yes. Well now I look at the way the people sneak in in boats. It’s all different. Anyway, what next did we do?

Oh no, no.

Well,

Well, the march. The troop march was the big one you see, and you go left right, left right and I used to love it, and we’d walk for miles and they wouldn’t let up and then they’d stop for a smoke and of course, being a non-smoker I didn’t worry and amazing how these fellows who smoked must have that cigarette. I think they were about 8 pence a packet or something. Fellows used to

come to me and say if you can get cigarettes, get them, get them. They were rationed and I used to try and get them some, and we had training boots and they were very careful about your feet. Oh they were good and apart from the smartalecks in the army, they were very good to you, and by now I was a corporal. Ooh, I could ty.. I was a corporal

see, on parade every morning in the drill hall, we’d stack the food in the drill hall, packaged food – tins and we’d have piles this high up to the roof and we were taught the usual bang, bang and so forth, target practice and we were ferrying food and ferrying petrol.

Oh, I tell you what. See, if we ever had a railway line from Alice to Birdum we wouldn’t have had to have a quarter, a fifth of the men see, because you had to tranship everything. And I was in Melbourne and we had 3,000 men unloading ships and

there were French ships used to come in, and I remember Russian ships came in, and we could only wave at the Russians, they couldn’t, no language and that sort of thing, and we had shipping all around the coast then. Of course the liner had to go up to Darwin because by the time the Japs came in, which was December 7, 1941,

their submarines were picking off our ships see, oh they couldn’t go, that’s why we had to defend the country. Right, now I’m going to call the ‘Roosters line’ and they were going to bring the, they had to defend that area. Oh, we had trenches and so forth and then I got into Alice Springs and we were worked 17 hours a day.

Trucks, big trucks, 7 toners, 7 toners, they’re 25’s today see, and we had to offload ‘em and put it back and you’d fall back in the heat. You were allowed to wear shorts, you didn’t have to wear a top. Of course, you’d get sunburnt and we used to think it was wonderful, now we realise how stupid it was. And it didn’t matter what rank you were, except the officers didn’t, you had to offload,

and if you were taking tobacco and cigarettes, you had to stand there with a loaded rifle to discourage your own mates from stealing. Tobacco and cigarettes, tobacco and cigarettes. Of course, I was always picked, they always shoved me, I was always the tobacco and cigarette thing because I didn’t smoke. Then we had mail trucks going up and down Australia, a semi-trailer with

a prime mover in front and a man on the on the back, and they’d reach a certain point and they’d have to wind the trailer off the truck and go into the area with the mail. See, as I said, it takes about 30 men to keep one man going see, and then Darwin… of course, by now the Japanese were at war and the Australians had visions of being called back from the Middle East. Now

they were wonderful men, the infantry. I was never in the infantry. I was a trained man for, well apart from my headquarter work, I was a supply man and I was a truck driver. So, they gave me a third stripe, they called it a lance sergeant. You got a corporal’s pay but you had sergeant’s privileges see and everything is done on paper. You just didn’t load the truck and

take it away, you had to know what was on the truck and you went forward with it. Now forward was up to 300 miles back from Darwin. See if they’d landed, if the Japanese had landed with their reckless way of life, go and die for the Emperor sort of thing, they’d dive on us in 5 minutes.

Oh more or less yes, it was there. I remember the Americans came in and then a group known as the Chicago Infantry were stationed with us at Adelaide River yes, they were there and of course, in the wet season the water comes up 24 feet overnight with the crocodiles! You never went to bed without a rifle, loaded, in case

the person you’re patting next to you is a bloody crocodile! Oh yes, oh yes. Well the railway bridges are now replaced by the new train… carried the road as well, you see. The road used to be down the bottom but then when the floods came you had to go over the bridge. Now they tried to bomb the Katherine Bridge. If it

hit, we’d have been buggered. It held us up for days.

Very, they missed the bridge. They bombed Katherine. Oh yes, yes and we were up and down, up and down the road. It took four days to do 600 miles. Oh yes, we used to tie our beds to the trucks over canopies and you drove and the

driver, two drivers, and then you’d have corporals and sergeants, and the sergeants had to drive which was right. And you’re trying to sleep in the trucks and you were taking petrol, petrol, petrol and you’d lay it out in the area around, anywhere in the Northern Territory, and when you went to get it, the evaporation by the heat was, there was only about a third of it

there. The waste was unreal. Unreal, the waste.

44 gallon drums. If you know what they are.

Oh yes, then of course we had to take food, then they had what they called perishable convoys. Now, I don’t suppose the health of a nation was ever better than during the war because they control the

diet, you see. English children never had sweets and they did better for it. Oh yes, when the lights were turned on and on after the end of the war, children got frightened because they’d never seen a light. It’s unreal isn’t it? You can’t believe it. Well, we then started to get girls in the army and they were doing as much of the base work as they could, and

let me see, we got, offloaded at Darwin. They used to send them by train, 300 miles see. Trains are the greatest form of transport there is and we got, they might bring cattle back, so you’d hose out the place for the cattle, hose them out and you threw your palliasse out and it went back as a troop train. See,

Troop, see and you might have had all the horse shit, dung around the place. I tell you she was good and you had your water bottle. I was very popular for my ration of beer and I’d sometimes come and they’d put 2 bottles of beer on your palliasse. When you’re up north, they gave you an iron bed because you had to be up

off the ground, you see, you’ve got bloody snakes and all this sort of thing. Go on and, well one day I, there was a, I was so tired, you just fall asleep you see, and a lovely bag of straw and my pillow was my underwear. I used to shove it into a flour bag, see and you’d see my…

that’s what I used to do for blankets, very cold at night of course in the Northern Territory, very cold and a lot of Christian names of the boys. That was all right, but no worries. I always carried spare food, I always had a tin of bully beef, biscuits and sometimes you’d get cut off. You’d be there for 2-3 days. See, these are the things that people don’t

know about.

Yes

And you’d get to Attack Creek, was the name of one place, ooh. It goes down and did it run and some of the boys used to strip off and then did go in, and they’d be called out and they’d tell the officers “Nah, I’m having a swim.” Well, they said all these snakes and things that are coming down they might you know, get nipped.

We’ll give you a military funeral or something because, they’d say, he used to come out in delayed shock. If you, as long as you were sensible about it you’d go to the water but the American’s never allowed their men to swim unless there were about half a dozen men with rifles. Would you have to be? One American went crazy there one day. Brrrr, typical Yank with the gun, brrrr and they went, “What’s wrong?”

He said, they said, “Is it a log?” He said, “Logs don’t blink.” And I said to him, “You’re right, man.” He said, “Are you going in?” And I said “Bugger it! I’m not going in. No, I’m not going in the water.” You never knew whether the person beside you was a crocodile. I’m not joking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s true.

No, I can’t because I wasn’t there. I

always seem to be just missing everything. Night of an air raid, a fellow said, “Where were you in the raid?” I said, “What raid?” I lied there dead to the world, oh yeah. You’d go under your truck. Now, they didn’t allow semi-trailers to go north of Larrimah. Mataranka, we could go up there taking stores in…

Go on, have a good laugh

Why not laugh now, it’s all over

Oh good on you. Anyway, we were very strict with our food, I told you I always carried food and we used to sling say a bag, a sack, fill it with water

which you weren’t going to drink and underneath the truck with the breeze, it would keep it cool you see. And we used to have lemonades and the occasional bottle of grog I don’t know, and I could keep chocolate, I used to wrap up chocolate you see and we… in these convoys that we used to take up there, were three north

a day and three south. Oh I’ll go back to the perishables in a moment, and we would send men ahead, we had built big sheds. Circle Well and Cabbage Gum Bore and other places I can’t think of their names now, they’re all in my records, with food, and they would set out

the food on tables and there was bully beef and biscuits and occasionally… Some of the boys were very good, oh there was wonderful men there, there were a few bastards too I tell you but they got short shrift… and you might chop up a lettuce and throw out lots of tomatoes you see, the fellows would go for it like a ton of bricks. Smoking was allowed all the time and

so forth, and then before we assemble, I’ll have a rest for an hour and assemble and go, stop again in 55 minutes. Sometimes officers used to line the convoys up, boys, and take them for a march. Fellows used to go, “Why have we gotta do this?” “Just do as you’re told,” and that’s what I always did. Now, sometimes I had to march them, not to march with them but the idea was keep the

health of the men. I think they used to smoke too bloody much too some of them and, see. Toilets were, you dug a ditch see and again these are things that people never think of. Oh, and so forth. Oh, the boys did this. What, push button, flush toilet or something on the way. You went out in the bush and you had to be smart that the bloody bull ants didn’t get you,

I tell you anyway,

During an air raid. Huh! Yes,

Oh you were buggered. I mean imagine it, out in the heat of all day. Oh yes, God there was some wonderful men and though they’re probably dead now. See, I mean I’m nearly 90 if you follow it, and they were the same age as I or a little bit less and they choofed on their drinks and things.

Yes, yes.

Oh yes, perishable convoys, sorry you had to change the reel. There usually were 8 trucks and we went to Alice Springs station, ah yards and we loaded cabbages, potatoes

and butter and so forth, and the butter was covered with sacks or hessian and you hosed it down see, and any time you had to stop, the men that were stationed at the various points on the road would hose it down for you. They had to to keep it solid see,

and you might have carrots and god knows what. See, diet wise you must give the men perishable food. You can’t live on hard rations all the time. Of course, the American’s, they just looked after their troops magnificently and a lot of packaged goods but still, they did. And I think Australia was supplying the American’s because they had black boys, coloured boy, oh look

I don’t know what they call ‘em, but they were black and they were bringing in the convoys from Mt Isa. We used to meet on the road and the American boys of course, black boys, were pretty poorly treated in those days and anyway, going back to my white days, Convoy 801 is my big memory. I was given a special trip on the convoy. You loaded your convoy direct from

the train. Priority. Everything was that and then you had all manifests see and Jim Bloggs and Smith and Jones and Brown and everybody were on the convoys. They had to know who was on them and so forth. And behind you with all convoys, there was a mechanical vehicle where two mechanics had to keep it going along the road, you see and, you

kept a distance of about 20 truck lengths I think, on the road, and no speeding, 20 miles an hour, 25 for a perishable. Now a perishable convoy had priority. It could pass anything on the road and I was a leader on one, this particular one, and it poured bloody pick handles for two days. And we’d come to water on the road so

I signalled a halt and I kept on my boots, I remember that. I think I had an old pair of sandshoes and I’d walk out, walk out, walk out and when the water got up to here, my waist, I said no, we couldn’t go because the trucks couldn’t go through the water you see, so we had, we had to wait. No choice. Officer

came up to me and said, “What’s doing Neville?” I said, “Well, it’s up to my waist.” He said, “Oh, oh.” So, we had to wait and the water did recede, so as soon as it got down to about my knee, we called the boys to go through and we went through very slowly. Now, some of the road was asphalt and some of it wasn’t and you’d have to sort of guide them through. I mean,

imagine a truck of fresh vegetables going over you see, so we were on hard rations. That didn’t matter. So, we got through that. That happened twice. Now, we used to go, by-pass some of the camps but it depended on petrol and we might have had to rush in and, priority again, they filled you with petrol and it all had to be signed for and accounted

for and then we move on. And we got to a place called, we used to go to a place called Cabbage Gum Bore that was its name, and it was about 15 miles south of Tennant Creek which today has a 6 lane highway. In those days you’d have one dirt track and you were not allowed to stop in Tennant Creek. You had to keep going. It was against the law to stop. They used to make sure you didn’t stop too.

We’d sleep for 5 hours then we’d push on. Priority all the way and they’d say, “How are things going?” and I said, “Well, I’ve got cabbages and they’re rotting,” see. So anyway, we pushed on. I always remember the big python on the road and we tried to run over it and missed. We got up to

Mataranka and Katherine, then we had to go over the railway bridge because the water was too high on the road bridge and you’d signal them through, only trucks and everybody was taking it carefully and they’d be eating their apples and things that we had. Ah, wonderful food. No, we never, I will not have anything said against the army. They did have wonderful food.

And, we got through to, on this very occasion, Pine Creek, and you might have a boy stay at the back, he might have fresh food for Pine Creek and he’d stop but you’d keep going. Go, go. The whole thing was go, go, go. “Va, va, va” as the French say, and we’d get through to, we got through to

Adelaide River. Now, once you got through to Adelaide River, oh wait on, it was Adelaide River that you couldn’t go beyond in a trailer. I think I said it was Mataranka, it wasn’t. It was Adelaide River and as soon as you got there, there was no saying, oh well, we’re tired, we’ll unload that in a few hours. Men came forward and they unloaded.

One fellow said, “What the bloody hell have you got here Govett?” And I said, “Fresh, beautiful cabbages, direct from the grass.” “God,” he said, “we’ll have to get bulldozers up to bury ‘em.” See, they’d gone rotten, they’d gone rotten. I said… they’d gone rotten. Now you see, we didn’t take cauliflower and the reason is that there’s too much waste in cauliflower. I mean if you eat cauliflower like I do, you only get

the flower, the rest is just tossed away you see, so as everything goes by weight, say 2 ounces of cauliflower for a man today or 1 ounce of potatoes, you’ve got 1000 men, you got 1000 ounces of potatoes. I forget the figures now. But the boys were checking the food and they were tossing away what we lost, and we lost half the convoy. Half the convoy was lost.

Rotting, see. When you’re in the heat and you’re in the water, and then they washed down the trucks for us and they’re so keen, see the boys that were there were so keen to get the fresh food through, as you could understand, and that was the night of the air raid that I slept. Oh dear, oh dear. Anyway, the following day

you’d been told there was some clean clothes, you see. So, we had our shorts and our so forth, and they put us onto trucks and took us into Darwin for a day off and you wouldn’t believe it. I was chased up the street by a fighter plane and the bugger was a pommy boy, English lad, with a swift fire. I didn’t know, I didn’t, I just went for the side. Oh dear, oh dear and then

when you came back, you brought back with you on the convoy anything, like a broken down truck or something like that for repairs and or hospitals rolled away, tents or some big hospitals and…

Sixty odd thousand people where aircraft comes. Now here’s a question. The railway line went from Darwin down through Adelaide River, Pine Creek and

Maranboy and places like that. They were only just names into Birdum and they built huge yards at Birdum. They used rail travel where ever they could. Steam trains, we had to take coal up for the steam trains and they then spread out into the various defence areas around

off that line, you see. A truck might stop at, some place I can’t name it now, on the way as I told you, to drop off food at Pine Creek and trucks might take, never mind what’s out there, never mind. I think it might have been mined, see. Mind you, you were defending a mighty nation for what’s the best country in the world and

it was defence in depth, and you had your aircraft. Now when the road, they would seal it, and when the road reached a point there’d be a boom gate come down and you’d have to stop obviously and the air force men might ask you what authority you had and you’d tell ‘em who you were and so forth, and they’d say, “Well, you can’t go through, you’ve got to stay here,” because

the road was then built out about 5 roads wide. It was an air, airstrip, airstrip and the planes used to be put into bunkers. We had big bunkers built so that if a bomb dropped and of course, they were bombed, at least it would hit the bunker and perhaps save the plane. That’s why, they had… oh several planes up there but John’s

Strip I remember used to be the one and I remember. Yes, they had the fighter planes you see, back, back. Defence is depth all the time and jungle everywhere, pythons and god knows what. I used to be dead scared, I tell you. I didn’t want to be bitten by a bloody snake.

Oh yes, yes, yes. Fresh, gosh. Mind you it was pretty regular fresh food, yes and oh look, it was very well organised.

I suppose the, I wouldn’t know the names of the people but they were high rank, brigadiers and people that could work it all out and they did it hard too.

Mind you, a lot of the work was done at the rear, never criticise the soldier that works at the rear. He’s doing his job. He gets the bludgers, the urgers, the hangers on hassling him but always look upon… I now have a friend around the corner from me here, he was in England and he never saw an aeroplane except on the ground and yet they used to put out, the boys out, for pilots to come in hosing out the poor fellow that’d been

killed and they kept the aeroplanes going. ‘He also serves who stands and waits’.

I was young.

Well I was 28 or so and I wasn’t worried with girlfriends or wife and this sort of thing.

No, they were here back in the… Women’s Army yes, Land Army yes. They were wonderful girls, they worked hard. Of course, you realise that 60 years on,

it’s all different. We’ve got our standard gauge railways and the railway almost through to Darwin. It makes all the difference in the world. A different lifestyle. A different lifestyle. When I was your age, life was very different. As I said earlier, the mobile phone, the aeroplane not that that worries me I can’t stand them,

won’t travel by air and, fast trains and motor cars, different life. Anyway, where were we up to now

Oh yes, yes. Yes, there was a truck only, a four wheel one that carried projectors, 35mm film, and there were 3

or 4 boys and they used to follow the convoys. Now they were subject to a time schedule and they would set up the films in the camps at night and the, they had their screen they put up, just like you’ve got one here, and admission was free.

Carried your kerosene tin in or your butter box and you watched the show and then had a news reel. It would be about a bloody year old, oh dear, and I remember one night we were at Banka Banka. That’s beyond Tennant Creek and the race horse called ‘White Nose’ who beat

Phar Lap came from there, and we set ourselves up and we were watching this film – they were talkies, and one film, I can’t think of its name, I do know its actor though, Victor Mature, he was a well known Hollywood man, it looked like an alright film, and it didn’t matter whether it was a stupid story or whether it was good. We all loved them! But of course,

if a fellow was making love to a girl, I wouldn’t like to repeat the comments that were made by the audience… get stuck into him, do the hulk, they were all encouraging, you see. Ooh, they were rather, it was rather good actually. Anyway, this film was on and all of a sudden a wind storm came up and bloody hell, the

dust was beyond belief and it blacked out the screen, and you could hear the talk and they were still going and nobody wanted to move, and we sat there through this film and missed half of it, the dust storm and finally, I think, when the dust storm ended, the film ended. And, it was great. You didn’t get your money back,

you just, you just packed up and went and slept under your truck again because you used to have to get up at 4:30 in the morning, 4:30, 4:30-5ish, no 5 something. There were three convoys between 4:30 and 6:00 see, if you came in late, you went out late or if you came in first, oh I forget what it was, doesn’t matter.

But, they had 3 convoys going and military police used to go up and down the road and see if there was anything you wanted, help you. Of course, you know no traffic signals. You just went straight through and sometimes a boy would break down and you might come in 3 or 4 hours late and you might switch a driver from one truck and say, “Well you drive his truck. Well you drive that truck for about

50 miles, while that boy has a sleep,” and so forth. You carried your own drinks and they weren’t keen on you having any beer but I think the boys used to have a drink of beer and I had my waterbag, lolly water they used to call it, lolly water and it was lemonade or something like that, and water, you

could have your water. And there were 2 trucks carried 44 gallon drums of drinking water and that was the only water that you drank and if you washed, you had to go wash with well, any water that there was, no waste you see and…Oh, I must tell you this, we had a laundry service, ala me, and I had a kerosene tin. Now,

are you familiar with what a kerosene tin is? 4 gallons square. They’ve gone out now so I wouldn’t expect a young person to really know, and Persil and Rinso were the two soap powders. Now you could buy these at your canteen for 5 pence or 6 pence and they were little packages about the size of my two hands put together.

Yeah, about that wide and you’d put your clothes in. You might have a singlet, you might have a, and you had your giggle suits and your socks, everything went in you see, and you sprinkled powder in and then you tied a cloth over the top and the motion of the truck washed your clothes, see. The way to wash your clothes and we were all doing it after a while. I think that was the original

washing machine you see.

Yeah, see, well the motion. I have friends, I taught them here and they went around Australia with a plastic dust bin clipped down the side and they did all their laundry on the way, see. Time was saved and everything else. Then, you’d stop after an hour so you got the clothes out and you rung them out and you tipped out your bucket

and went and got water from one of the trucks that carried water. Not the drinking water. They had to go to others, and you put them in, tied the rag around the top and then the next hour, we stopped every hour, then next hour you rinsed them, see. Very, very good. So then, you ring them out, and then I had a rope,

and we had canopies over our trucks. You’d put the rope through the leg of the trousers and through the shirt sleeves and anything else and you tied it off and the wind dried them, see. Then, when the next one, you’ve got your trousers out and you fold them neatly, fold them around in between newspaper and used to get news print on them and

you’d sit on them for the next 5 hours, perfect ironing. Never arrived unclean. Oh wonderful, wonderful. Oh yes.

Oh yes, that’s right, you might. Doesn’t matter, that was the way to do it.

I didn’t give them

any choice. I rang them up and told them I was there. Oh, mother accepted it, that the war was on. She never attempted to stop me. I paid her 1/3 of my pay to help her out and my dad. I had 2 shillings that I used to live on. It never cost me anything, I got all the feed

and my sister used to send me canteen certificates. You wouldn’t believe what they did during the war? She once sent me 2 shillings, now if that doesn’t sound much it was marvellous with what you could buy. We used to get these canteen vouchers sent to you. They’re like Postal Notes they’ve dropped out, you could say they were sworn cheques, see.

Ah, money orders, that’s right that’s

the name, yes that’s what they are and I think they were free, I don’t think you had to pay for them. This is a 2 shilling money order, canteen order, and you sent it. Of course, the post office still operated. Mail was free, you didn’t have to put a penny or a stamp on the envelope, letter.

Yeah, mm, yeah.

No, no, my sister married. I happened to be in Melbourne the day she married. She was married and her husband got transferred to, he came back from India and she went to Perth with him, then came back to Melbourne and he was discharged on medical grounds and they lived in

East Malvern in Victoria, and I was very much in contact with her, and to get a phone call you’d wait for perhaps an hour to get through. Yes, you’d wait about an hour.

Fairly close to her, yes fairly. My sister was a very good girl but she wasn’t very bright or clever. Academically,

she was terrible. Tremendous good dress maker and dancer and she could type, but she was so dominated by my mother that she always asked mother everything to do, permission to do anything and it wasn’t so good, but she was very good to me and I lost her 27 years ago. Her husband had died 6 years before and they had 2 children. Yes, around Victoria

now. But Mavis did a lot of voluntary work and that sort of thing. But the story of the Northern Territory, I’ve written as much as I can and I’ve been honoured with having it transcribed, and I’ve made tape recordings so that people will know. It’s just one of those things that people accept, “What did you do in the war?” And my answer was, “I went

where I was sent and I did as I was told.” Have you any comment? No, that’s not fair, not fair. I mean I met a girl on a ship recently and she said, “Well, I was in the army, Neville.” And I said, “Where were you, what were you?” She said, “I was a clerk.” I said, “Oh yes.” She said, “I work at the Victorian Barracks.” “In other words,” I said, “you went where you were sent and you did as you were told.” And she said, “I’ve never looked at it that way.”

“But,” I said, “that’s the way it goes, that’s the way it goes.” And I said, “Were you happy in your job?” “Oh yes,” she said, “I was a day to day soldier and had to do my guard duties,” and whatever they had to do, the girls. But she said that she did a useful job. She was a private AWAR or AMWAR or AWAR [AWAS: Australian Women’s Army Service] or something.

Meet? How they?

Oh well, there weren’t any. For a while, there weren’t any, no. Some of them in use were supposed to be pretty good. You’d find a lot of married girls up there because their husbands were away, see. They evacuated the Darwin area. I found sometimes that,

in fact I believe that I was a very honest soldier, I did what I was told. I’m very proud of that and I didn’t smoke or drink. I say that for a purpose - I used to get imposed on and eventually some of the girls came up there and I met a couple of them. They were, lived nearby me in Melbourne and it was very nice, and when you

went back to full base you could have a dance, some of the boys had instruments and they had good bands. I mean it’s not all bash and crash. I always admired the infantry but then, I’m not an infantry man. I probably would have been killed on the first day.

Just, probably wouldn’t have taken

to the infantry, fighting. I mean some people play tennis, football, cricket. You don’t all have to be cricketers or tennis players. So you can’t all be infantrymen. But, I hope there’s never, never, never another war of that scale. And I have all my war films here, Russia and places like that. I knew a German soldier who was 3 years on the Russian

Front and I said to him, “Julius, what was it like?” He said, “Neville, that Hitler went mad…they had us under their thumb.” And I said, “Where were you?” He said, “Three years on the Russian Front.” I said, “How did you survive?” He said, “I was an electrician,” and he said, “my job was doing this and doing that,” behind the Front, see. And he said, “I went one

day, I forget where we were, we were in Russia,” my wife was listening to him talking, and he said there were German soldiers there absolutely crying their hearts out, just absolutely shedding tears. “Why are we here? What did the Russians ever do to us? Why?” And he said, “And that madman,” I said, “Hitler?” He said, “Yes, that madman,” he said, “control.” I understand

from newspaper reports that the Russian generals, and they’re a pretty aggressive mob you know, the German Army and he said that the German generals had said to Hitler, “Don’t do this and don’t do that.” They were experienced soldiers and they knew what they were talking about but no, this almighty man, God it must have been dreadful, dreadful, dreadful.

Oh, I was a good dancer.

Only 18 months since I stopped. I had to stop because the, I haven’t got so much balance now but if I get my arm around a pretty girl, I might be able to balance around, so I’m looking forward to my next trip on the ship but I won’t go away on my own now.

Now, not in the what is it? 2003. No, I mean I’ve got to accept that I’m an old man. 88 shortly as I’ve told you probably several times. We only had the dances back in Alice Springs and that sort of thing when we were picking up our supplies you see.

Oh, the Fox Trot and the Waltz, and the good old Boogie Woogie, yes I think that was in, yes the Boogie Woogie was in. I had a

special pair of dancing boots and we danced on concrete floors, oh yes. Now going back to the base see, I don’t know how many men there were in Alice Springs but Brigadier Larsen was the name of the man, he ran the show and we didn’t have any trouble. Maybe the odd little occasion

and he, let me see what else did we do.. yes, Catholic hall had the concrete floor and we used to glaze it down, the boys would do it. I mean they were off duty as it were and now the Todd River goes through the Alice, it’s a dry river see, Henley on the Todd, and now the

civil population have boats, and the boats are tied to the men and they run, up the river you see, into the river with oars, nothing to care about. Now one night, one day when I was back at base, there was a church service. Church and they’re very keen on Church, and you weren’t compelled to go

but they might say, “Right, if you’re not, don’t want to go to church, you stand outside the door, at ease, while the Service is on.” “Oh yes, that’s alright.” The Catholic boys were, they’d normally go in. I’m very familiar with the Catholic church though not a Catholic person, but they’re very good to me and I admire them. They’re very kind to me and

if you went to the Protestant churches, first they’d say, “Take time off, take time off.” So they used to say, “Right, who’s going to the service?” Now I enjoy going to church and I always used to go in and so what, many boys went in, and the smart alecks that didn’t go in were given rifles and they’d clean them while we were at church. And I used to sit inside the church and watch them do it, see. One of the

boys said, “I think I’ll go to church in future.” I said, “Heathens like you and your bloody rifle,” and we used to laugh you see, but it was very good. But one day, young boy had just been ordained or whatever you do in the Baptist church, and he was a very young minister, you see. And we were marched down to an area for a church

service and this young man was shaking like a dog, he was dead scared, he was shaking and so forth. And if you went to light up a cigarette, they’d say, “Put out the cigarette and don’t argue.” So they took us down to the Todd River which was dry. There had been heavy rain further up and we were sitting on tins and on pieces of trees

and so forth. I don’t know how many were there, about 80 see, and some of the boys were very experienced bushman see. I wasn’t, I was a city slicker, and this fellow was giving his little service. I said to him, “Thank us quietly,” I said, “all these heathens you got here.” I said, “You don’t have to worry about them.” And we all laughed and all of a sudden one fellow said, “ I’ve had it!

Quick.” And he got up and ran. I said, “What’s wrong with you?” “Bloody hell,” he said, “the river’s coming down.” Now, I’ve never seen it before and I hope I’ll have the chance of seeing it again, you see, the dry rivers run for 4 days a year, the Todd. And the black fellow’s up the road from us

and he caught up and shot through and he said to the minister, “Bugger this, go, go!” And this wall of water must have been 3 or 4 metres high, came down from the hills see, in the middle of our church service and it swept everything away from it, everything, and men went everywhere, went everywhere and I, I packed up myself and I went, you see you’d have been pinned if you’d have been caught in it.

And there were logs came down and dead ducks and every other thing, they came down the river in Alice Springs. I always remember that, the young Baptist minister said, “I’ve never seen that.” I said, “Neither have I, never seen that.” Which you see is the water collecting in the hills and came down. Well now, we only had embankments to go across the river, we didn’t have bridges, and the smart alecks went through Alice Springs.

Some of us went back to the camp. Now, they were trapped on the other side of the river for 3 or 4 days. They knew how to get a few days leave, see.

No, no, no. I mean a lot of things I might have done but I wasn’t an experienced man, but I managed to get back to Alice, we didn’t

have any benediction. It was cope for your bloody life Oh, I tell you, it was good stuff, oh it was very good. We lost a few things, I think a truck went into the river, the fellow got out, swam ashore, then he waited for the river to go down. Mind you, he threw the schedule out. The convoys couldn’t go up. Some

of the boys who came back had to, just simply didn’t get their 3 days in camp where they remained with their vehicle, and listened to the drill, and listened to the Education Corps announcements. They had to go straight back and we had to, I think we had to put petrol on rafts or something to get it back. Oh, it happened a few times

I’ll never get used to it. I was…

No, no, we went to church the next Sunday, no, no. It’s voluntary. You cannot be forced to go to a church service, no that’s one thing about the army. Well, in my day, war day, no you weren’t forced to go but I’ve always been a church-going man, and I think I know the routine of every

door motion there is. And I used to wash the dishes up here at the local Catholic church and I got the sack the other day, they said 20 years was too long, I’ve been washing the dishes for them. No, they are very good to me and the Uniting Church is very good to me. I am very keen on going to church. I like it and…

Yeah, every Sunday, yeah.

Football Saturday night, church on

Sunday.

Yes, well happily they were, the men were all happy. Although I seem to remember 3 people were killed in road accidents. Mind you, I have a feeling that they were ‘kadooradis’ [?]

that are in death.

Oh, hanging on the side of a truck or something. We never had any trouble with drunkenness or anything like that but, you see you weren’t likely to have a crossing, there were no crossings and there were no road patrols. It was just everything up and down but say if there were, I think there were

about three when I was there, they fell off or something. Very strict! I really say this, I admire them the way the army acted, and I admire the way the boys acted. How they would do it today with today’s youth, with respect to your age, I don’t know, because it’s a different world now. An entirely different world. I don’t know that I’d want to go back to it,

but I had a wonderful time. I lost mates, killed and I was eventually to be a patient of the war myself, and let me repeat what I’ve said. “He also serves who stands and waits,” I think that’s the expression. By the way, I’ll quote something, now I believe it was the pope of the day said it, not sure,

but his words were, “When,” this is going back to ’39, “When the first shots of this war are fired, it will mark the beginning of the end of life as we know it.” Now that’s the truest words that I think have been spoken because believe me, we have never gone back to the lovely days before the war. We have lovely days now but it’s a rat race now.

Tourists and god knows what. No, I had a lovely life, quiet. Didn’t have the facilities and the things that we have today - motor cars, wonderful but a menace; aeroplanes, wonderful but they can be a menace and it’s a way of life. I’m happy, I’ve had a wonderful life. If your life is half as good as the one I’ve had,

you’ll have a wonderful life. Wonderful life, wonderful wife. So what have I got to worry about?

Oh yes, they were good. They accepted that we were there and sort of in their country. We had Aboriginal boys working with us

and they were very good. I remember just as the war ended, there was a boy called Billitilarikia and he used to say, “Ahlo divil.” – “Hello Devil,” you see. And I used to say, “Hello Billy.” And he was very nearly in the Olympic Games as a javelin thrower. Oh, they did as they were told. Or ask you, they’d look after you. Oh, they were good boys, good boys. Some of them were a bit silly but

they, they were good boys. They’d load your trucks and help you. They were paid mind you, and fed, and later on I would think, “now, do their camps…?” And one day I remember after the war, I was given, I was taking some film, and I said, “Oh well, use the film.” And there was a law that said that I couldn’t use the Aboriginals, yeah!

Oh, I got them dancing around there and well the, any other questions before I tell you something about the Aboriginal boys?

Well, now this is post war, we’ve jumped a bit here, you see.

Post war. The Governor General was the Duke of Gloucester and the boys used to live in pastoral Bagot compounds,

Bagot compounds see, and the Duke of Gloucester came visiting, and of course he was visiting the island. Brigadier or some ranking he had, a governor general I suppose, and one day the native boys were told that they’d have to put on a small corroboree for the governor

general. Big White King you see. Big White King and some of the fellows were a bit ‘bugger the Big White King’ you see. They did as they were asked and I’m there with my camera, movie, and a fellow said, “Now you give yourself Neville. You’re bloody useless the way you get mixed up with the camera,” you see, in amongst the people. So Henry, Henry Duke of Gloucester see,

and he came out and while he was fiddling around on the outside with Lady Gloucester, Neville Govett’s out filming the natives and they came in and they did a war dance for me you see, and I go… All of a sudden the Duke comes along, who do I physically bump into but the Duke? Oh god, I thought. Well, so anyway they sat down, the natives,

and one of the Australian officers said, “Righto, righto,” he said, “you dance, dance. Come on, I want, come on boy, come on boys.” And they wouldn’t get up and he said, “The White King. You dance, you promised me, you will dance,” and they said, “No way.” No way would they dance for the Big White King. They had just danced for Sergeant Govett and they were tired.

God, Sergeant Govett did the best retreating action he had ever done you see, and the following day my Commander, Philips, was it Philips, I don’t know what his name was now, called me in and he said, “Neville, were you at the tobacco compound yesterday?” I said, “Yeah, of course I was.” He said, “And you were taking films?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Is it true what I heard?” I said, “I don’t know what you heard,

but yes it was true.” He said, “Look, you and your bloody camera.” He said, “Get on the first train to Mataranka, 200 miles away, and stay there till I call you back.” There’s left, right and sideways here. And I had to go 200 miles down the road and I stayed there for 2 days before I came back. They wouldn’t dance for the Big White King they just danced for Sergeant Govett. Now I’ve

got that on film. Channel 7 as well. They’ve printed it, oh god I tell you, those are the things that’ve happened.

Yeah, good stuff eh?

Look, as I said to you before, a lot of things you’re not supposed to have.

A mate would say, can you take me a

photo? You couldn’t get film. A box, rarely. And their history now in the libraries, the Darwin people have got them all, yes. It’s wonderful you know, to think that these are your views today. Wonderful. I’m so glad it’s all in history, it’s making my day. Anyway, we were up to

the time before, I drifted there. We started to ease off in the north, it was obvious that with McArthur’s push to the Philippines and Okinawa and places like that, wherever they went. We were eventually withdrawn, I told you a lot about the Northern Territory. We were eventually withdrawn and

I said, “Could I be in the last group to go?” And they said, “Oh yeah, we’re looking for volunteers.” So when I was told I was going south they said prepare for the Balikpapan move you see, and we were withdrawing to become infantry I suppose. And I went down to Adelaide across to Melbourne

and up to Sydney and we were training and getting ready for Balikpapan. And oh god, we were just wandering what was going to happen but my father died when I was there and the bottom of the world fell out of my life. My dad was dead. I couldn’t believe it, but he was so wonderful to me and when I got back to Sydney, fellows said, “There’s something wrong Neville, you’ve missed the boat?” I said,

“Oh no, no, no.” And we never got to Balikpapan, not anybody. And they said, “Well, we’ll see what’s doing and do you want to go back to Melbourne?” And I said, “No, I don’t. I want to go north.” So, they sent me up here to Brisbane and then the atomic bomb fell. What was it? Hiroshima, 8:15 in the morning and the other one 2 minutes past 11 at Nagasaki and

9 days later, it was all over. Thank God we never had to land because the American’s would have lost a million men. Oh! I saw where they had to land eventually. I lived in Hiroshima for a few years and been to Nagasaki but it really brings us to a part story of my experiences during the Second World War.

Disappointing. Disappointing.

Well, by the time the war was over and everybody was sort of saying how wonderful, I

found it sad, quite alright. Mind you, I didn’t actually have to drive because I was a sergeant and oh, I might have been back to a corporal, I’m not sure. We used to supervise you see. You’d go out and see how your trucks were going. There’s one thing though. I was at Wallangarra and we still worked bringing saws back and transporting and unloading and I said I’m not going to leave the army. I had

an appointment before the war. So, there was a bit of a rumpus on poison gas. They admitted that we had poison gas. Huge cylinders and they had to be moved from point A to point B. Now where they were taking them I don’t know or what they were doing with it, but the Americans were gearing down and going back home to the

United States, and the war ended very suddenly you see. And it went just 6 years and the poison gas was taken through, sometimes through the city. It was amazing. The Storey Bridge was open and oh, great

fuss about this poison gas, but it wasn’t the army that took it, they were civilians and the army was getting a bit bloody annoyed that why did the … civilians? Oh, triple pay and all this garbage. I think the Military Police guided them through, but I know that there was a big rumpus about it, and I didn’t have anything to do with it, but fancy poison gas

being taken through Brisbane. Hit a tram or anything. Oh God, I don’t know. Amazing! No. Oh, the war just geared down and so forth.

Well, I seem to be able to get on with most people and I found them quite nice, quite nice boys. Different lifestyle but very nice and different

sort of twang in their voice. But of course the poor old black American, he wasn’t allowed over the river you see, he had to be on the south side. It’s all different now of course. But I got on very well with them. Well, I wasn’t sponging or taking off them. Some of the Australians acted very poorly. Some of the girls went mad but that

was it, the war was over, and I went back to Darwin and cleaned up and then I got my chance to do something else. What was the other question you had?

The same as we were, transporting, but they had 1000’s of troops up in the

North, Adelaide River, alongside us, with us and the attitude of some of the Australians was poor and, you know, they’d want… Australians were on a few dollars, a dollar a day or something and they were on 5 dollars, oh all that sort of nonsense, but I got on very well with them. They used to set up a screen, pictures and they’d let us take a truck load down you see, and of

course, you got the very latest films there see. They used to ask you for milk and we’d ask them back, oh, you don’t worry. It’s like the navy. If a man is in the water, you don’t ask him his colour, his religion or his political group, he’s a man in the water, you get him out, and here in the Northern Territory with odd exceptions, we don’t have trouble. Some fellows might say I had trouble and then you work it out

that maybe it was his fault. I got on very well with them and I had no language barrier except the accent. And they were fighting and they wanted to go home to their mums and dads and wives and things, so forth. Oh, I found them it quite good, quite good, I found them good.

Oh yes, lance sergeant

Oh, there was always those idiots. There was always those idiots. I was a quiet person and well, you just simply had to show that you were a sergeant or a corporal and they did as they were told, and there wasn’t much trouble. Came

one day, Australia Day, I mean of all the days. Wishing you never had a bond do you, to anything, but some boys had but they worked hard and some didn’t but you’ll always get that, you’ll always get that, you’ll always get that. So I enjoyed the army, I enjoyed my life. I did as I was told which I am very pleased about and

I thought there was a career ahead of me here. I had no envisions to be a General or a top man. I just like to work quietly. I have a motto ‘vestignalanti – hasten slowly’ and that’s how my life’s been. I married the right girl, what do I have to worry about?

Well, I didn’t expect any

more awards, see, and it suited me. I was moving around and the train trips, I’m a train fanatic and we were cleaning up and sorting out and closing camps and, of course, this leads up to my going to the occupation. I deplored the occupation selections. I thought that the government of the day acted badly. Young people

came in at a very young age to the Occupation Forces and they got a trip to Japan, and there were men well, like me for that matter that couldn’t get a trip to England or Italy to take prisoners back, they sent these young kids in charge. Well I mean we were getting a bit sour about it and after all I was about 32 or 31 or something, and I’d been used to my way of life but I was determined I’d

never going to go back home. I was determined on that. My father was gone, my mother was going her way and my sister was married and I just went that way. My bank account that had been nothing was now a few pounds in it and I was a fairly quiet boy and oh, I was loving it, loving it.

Pardon.

Ooh, straight away. Marvellous for people trying to get authority isn’t it. A lot of people there they were good men but they didn’t have the experience and neither did I. I don’t kid myself that I knew, but I worked quietly and as I say. I was looking after

my mother financially and that was very nice, very nice indeed. But, the war ended so suddenly see, but you realise, the war is over, you don’t all rush and get discharged. They want men and I said, “I’ll stay, I’ll stay.” “Oh for god’s sake, stay!” And you were an experienced NCO [non-commissioned officer]

and volunteered for Darwin, I volunteered. I regretted it because I missed the opportunity of going straight away to the Occupation but I don’t regret it now, I don’t regret it now. My life’s worked out so wonderfully for me.

Oh yes, well of course, you see we had a unit of transport. A lot of them were young boys

and I said, “You do as I say, you don’t do as you say,” or “You do what the sergeant here says,” and that sort of thing and we got them working. Some of them were a damn nuisance but generally, speaking we had to close down the ordnance depot and there were millions of pounds worth of goods in them.

Well, they were selling them to the public see and

we were, there weren’t any ammunition. It was stores of clothing and so forth. Now, the army’s got hundreds of thousands of uniforms. Of course, up there you didn’t take it. You had shorts and giggle suits as we called ‘em. No, they did a tremendous job, it was like parachutes. One man bought a tent full of parachutes and he wasn’t a popular

officer but I found him very nice. He was able to buy this tent full of parachutes and some bloke burnt it down. Oh yes, yes. Stealing was, a little bit of it, I’m afraid.

No, no.

I didn’t want anything. Oh, I thought I would get a jeep out of one of the ships out in the harbour but it didn’t come to bear. My lifestyle was different and I really suppose I was, I was caught offside. I was caught offside.

Well, I didn’t have the money. I didn’t have a home except my mother and dad’s and

a bit taken back by the end of the war. You become used to it, you know, you become used to it. And then you get the people that tell you how good they were and so forth and I said oh yes, yeah, of course I done alright, but they were magnificent people. At your age be grateful that so many men went out and women and died to make our country what it is. Now look at the mess we’re in with terrorists and

wars everywhere and so forth. As I say, my wonderful life. Oh yes, I don’t regret it and being the grandson of a colonist, I try to uphold it. That’s why I’ve written so many books. Oh, articles I should say. And my movie, movies which are all in Canberra, if I’m not drifting from the subject because the war’s over and I think we’re going to talk later on about

Occupation, career, so forth.

So, yes I, I just don’t like recording things. Somebody told me “keep recording, keep recording” and I love my camera work. 20,000 feet in the Mitchell Library, not the Mitchell Library, the archives in Canberra.

Oh, almost impossible. Funny things happen though.

Well, a very fine person in Ballarat had access to Kodak and she would send me film, oh for my Box Brownie and the movies, well I lost a lot in the heat, even had some confiscated which I got back but, it’s marvellous what does happen. Marvellous.

I didn’t do anything dishonest. I’m proud of that, proud of that. That would have upset my father but I got the film.

I was in Sydney waiting to go to Balikpapan, Sydney. My sister sent me two telegrams, the second one arrived first

which confused me cause old Dad he was 83, fantastic man. Wonderful. He used to call me “the little man” and he, he cursed the war but, as I repeat, he was wonderful to me, wonderful and I

like to uphold it. I look back, and talking to you now, makes me realise what that war did to us. Oh dear, oh dear.

Changed our lives around. There were marriages, there were broken marriages, there were men killed as naturally there would be, and so forth. Of course

we were part of the British Empire. I think that was good. I like the British Empire.

Well, I did but I didn’t start saying “rah, rah, rah” and all this sort of thing. That was the lawyers, King and Country was…that’s the way you went on. I don’t know who you do it for now. Oh dear, oh dear, gosh. The

war with the Depression and the unhappy time I had at school and so forth. Oh look I know I keep saying it but it’s such a different world. Very few people had cars and my aunt who was rather well placed, gave my sister a car and she taught me to drive and she’d lend me the

car occasionally. Petrol of course was new to all. We had 3 gallons of petrol one month and 2 the next, just enough to keep the engine going. And cinemas and, well can you imagine going to the cinema. It cost my father 9 pennies and me 3 to go the cinema and see a good

show. You’d think it was wonderful but food rationing I think in, oh food in the Depression was the one that always impresses me. How people stuck together and helped one another. We’re drifting a bit from the war time but…

Oh, back to Darwin are we?

Yeah.

Oh well, it wasn’t a… it was done by tender, yeah. Tender.

Well, as a transport man all I had to do was, I was told to provide trucks as were others, although I think they only used 2 sergeants. We had to provide

the trucks. I don’t know what they did. One officer, a very nice fellow, said, “I want you Neville,” he said, “you’re a good man.” And I was very proud of that. He said, “I’d like you in my Unit,” and I said, “Oh no, no, I’m staying where I am.” So you’d hear that in this part of the store there were parachutes and uniforms and pots and pans, all this to make an army, you know. Tick and

I don’t know what they were doing. All we had to do was transport it. I do remember a very sad thing one day. A very young boy, should never have been sent, was sent up to Darwin by air I think and he joined, wanted to be a provo, a military policeman. So they said they’d train him and provos, never popular, but wonderful men. Oh, you can’t do without

them. This lad is told to clean a rifle and he’s cleaning the rifle or pistol, I’m not sure. Another fellow was over the other side of the circle that were cleaning and for some mad reason, don’t know how it happened, I don’t even know the end of it, he put a live round in the rifle, can you believe it? And this kid’s there cleaning

and looking up through what they view through the rifle, ah pistols, and this rifle went off and it blew the entire area here, around his waist, blew it off. Of course, the boy was killed. Can you just imagine… oh god, that was in, that was post war, never forget that. Never

forget that, never. Poor devil. Still, it happens. Oh, you can get in your car and get killed can’t you. So we all thought the war, the second ‘War to end War’ had been fought. My God, look what happened.

They were an enemy,

they’d been and had a fight, thank god it was over and that was it. Remember, we’re on an island. Not much of an island now but we’re on an island. I suppose we’re nearly at the end of the tape.

No, anyway only a few days ago, someone said to me, “You lived in Japan for a long time

didn’t you?” I said, “Indeed I did.” “What’s it like?” And I said it quite openly ‘cause I meant it, “It’s the second best country in the world.” You see, I mean Japan and its manufacturing and its way in which it’s rebuilt itself. I couldn’t believe this, the fellow said to me, “Second best country in the world?” I was only up here in the local street. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Which is the best?”

And I couldn’t answer him. I stood there. Couldn’t answer him. Which is the best? ‘Cause I can tell you which is the best. This is the greatest country in the world, Australia. I don’t care which way you turn. I couldn’t believe that, which is the best? Oh dear, oh dear. I must be getting old. Well I’d been out in the army now very close to 33 years, so I guess you were

in short pants, very short pants, yes indeed.

It’ll take 10 reels. There was trouble. I voted, I was in Darwin and I said to an officer, “I am an experienced man now and I volunteered for Japan. Why am I being held back while

these also-rans…” I said, “Kids at school are being sent over there.” So, they sent me to Melbourne. Ten days in Melbourne up to Greta camp where the Occupation troops are there, to go from, and I battled my way to get there. Unreal. And, I said, “But I’m a sergeant with years of experience, why, why

why?” And they could never tell me, so a girl who’s long dead, worked in the Records Office and she said to one of the Senior men, “Why is my friend Neville Govett not going to Japan?” And they just told me that I’d be on the next boat, ship and I went but it took all that effort to go. Why? I don’t know.

They never said anything, no never said anything. Well, they never said anything to me ‘cause I just went.

My life was already in its 30’s, a

third of a century, why shouldn’t I? I knew I had a job to do and I hope I did it well. I hope so, always hope I did my job well but it was an adventure, it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful but I never had any trouble. No, I never had any trouble in Japan and

I got along well with the Japanese. In fact I had a compliment paid to me by a Japanese group they said that could they have me with them in the circle because I was the kindest man they’d met. They were very nice.

It was, yes, it was, a great compliment. I was told that I could walk up a Japanese street at night on my own and never have any fear because they all

knew me. I was proud of that, very proud of it and here I am putting it on tape and I swear it’s true. Oh yes, lovely isn’t it to have that compliment. Can we have a rest now?

Well, I was in Darwin cleaning up and then I went to Melbourne and Greta. War was well over, oh the war was over and I was waiting to go to Japan.

Yes, well, of course the Occupation of Japan was on, Australia no, England, British offered us a sector and America had the rest. America really deserved to be in charge after all, they were the ones that really had the numbers against Japan and

they had the bombs and the men. Thousands of men and I forget, I think it was 2 and a half million men passed through Britain, Americans anyway. The time came and I eventually sailed on the [HMAS] Kanimbla to America, ah to Japan. I was a sergeant and went as a sergeant, I didn’t lose rank or gain rank and… a bit

sea sick, so was everybody else, and we went up to New Guinea and offloaded some stores, went around to Finschhafen and we were allowed ashore, and Sanananda and then 8 days to Japan. On the way we found a floating mine, so the ship circled it and I think they found that it was rifles. I’m not sure what happened

but the Captain apparently, it didn’t blow up, but the captain went ahead. He knew what he was doing and then we eventually arrived in Japan. Now, a few things were built by then and…

Another. Oh bugger it.

Away we go.

Now, where were we up to, oh yes I arrived in Japan. Well, the military trucks available took us to a place called Karoonda, and we had a staging point there and the following day the Australian records office allocated us

to units and see I was not there in the early days and an officer said to me, “Transport, just the boy,” he said, “120 the platoon. 168 general transport.” So, I eventually got on a vehicle and I was taken there and reported in with my papers and I was allocated as transport sergeant, and a couple of the boys showed me what the arrangements were

and it worked from there. The Australian drivers used to go out doing jobs every day and the Japanese people were employed and paid as Occupation personnel and they worked around the camp, and some of them were very excellent, they were tradesmen and others were just also, just labourers.

Some had been in the army and some not.

Oh about 1946 I think, yes, yes.

I couldn’t believe that I was in another country for a start, and my impressions were that they were very hard working people, they were starving and they were, they’d tell me

sometimes through an interpreter, a lot of them spoke English – I didn’t speak Japanese, that the bombing raids on Kure, they were very heavy because it was a naval base you see, and oh later on I learnt a lot from them but I was quite impressed and thought well, you’ve seen the poor people but they weren’t really because they had been bombed and blasted. Now the,

I was in a very big unit and it was annoying me very much that most of the men in the unit were young kids from school and I resented it. I thought it was wrong. No wonder the Japanese laughed at us. I’m quite honest about it. So we, I had very nice quarters and the house girl who was allocated to me and

to another young sergeant who, he was also a post war boy, but he was older, she was wonderful and her husband whom I met later, had been a soldier in Burma. Now this woman that I had was older and her name was Sedaka and I could see that she liked me and

I used to give her a few sweets and things, and the Japanese were very much under control, of course. What’d they call, I forget the name now that the army had, for acquiring things. It will come to me as I speak, and this girl looked after me. I mean, I had my clothes washed and ironed, it’s unreal isn’t it, and excellent army

food, Australian food of course, and we had labourers and cooks. Japanese in the kitchen with our own men supervising all the time and all the loading and heavy work was done by the Japanese. Poor devils, they were so small and weak in build that you’d have to help them, and I decided right, now, come on Christian soldiers, you’re a Christian man I hope, and let’s be fair so I used to help and

always very nice to them if I could be, and they were marvellous to me. I could almost ask for anything and they’d help me. Take a crew of Japanese, scuttle and help over here, see. So I had that compliment paid to me. Well Sedaka thought I was wonderful and she kept my room spotlessly clean, and she was always amazed that

whenever I got up of a morning in this beautiful room, and I always folded my pyjamas and pulled back the bed. Most of the fellows used to say get the nips to do this. But not in my nature and I wasn’t going to change my nature and upbringing just because I was in a country that had been defeated. It had been wrecked actually. Ooh, I tell you what, the American bombing was good. She could, they could really cut to pieces.

I don’t know much about the British move but however, anyway, excuse me, oh dear. I used to go off to work and I’d come home and come back to my room and find the bed made, and sometimes they’d put flowers in for you, and it was all very nice. And then the army would feed the troops, feed the troops, Japanese you see,

and procurement demand, was that word I was looking for, procurement demand. They could say, “I want that,” and they’d speak to the Japanese. Now it wasn’t an Occupation like Germany had of our fellows and the Japanese had of our fellows, it was a straight out Occupation and requests were made, monies were paid and the Japanese were consulted. Mind you, the Occupation Forces had the right

to overrule but that wasn’t… the Americans had the overall right, excuse me. Sergeants used to be able to say to the mess where Japanese served us, “Could I have a meal please, house girl?” and they would bring you a meal and you were

allowed to carry that meal back to your room and give it to your girl. Now, they were starving and I thought that was wonderful see, after all you don’t, surely, they’re human. They’re your enemy and they’ve given in so you used to do it. Then they said they’d stop this, we’re adopting another system. When they, when you’ve had your meal we

will give you, we will get the Japanese to come down to the mess hall and they can eat what they want of our food, if they want it, which they didn’t half the time because they didn’t like our food you see. And we would cook them rice and sometimes, if not always, they provided the rice and our own people cooked it and they were allowed to sit down in the room and eat it. Then they would

clean up thoroughly and go. Now, people looked for jobs with the Occupation because they were getting a feed, they were not allowed to take it out of the camp but we never used to look at the gate when they were going out, they had to show their bags when they left the area, we used to get a bundle of rice and say, “Where are you going?” And they used to laugh and bow in the usual Japanese way but you never stopped them stealing from you. They weren’t really stealing. They’d do anything to make sure that

their children had food. That suited me, that suited me. So, sometimes, well I was this way inclined, you’d throw a cake of chocolate in so they can take it home. After all, I knew what it was like in the Depression to be hungry, a little bit hungry, so that was the way. Now, they then went home and came back the next morning

and they had to report to their work and sometimes they might be transferred and by now, the oh time marched on and by now the Japanese were recovering, they recovered fairly quickly. They put their railways in order straight away. There was no fast bullet train in those days. Three feet six carriage and they had their

two firemen on the train to start the engine because they were so small in stature that they couldn’t keep up the coal into the train you see. And they, we had special trains, they had a white band about a 4 inch white band down the side. Japanese were not allowed in them. Americans or Australians, Occupation Force, women with authority and Japanese with authority but they were

spotlessly clean. And there was no fares of course and then they’d have on the train ‘Allied Forces’ see in English and the, they named the trains in the British area after Wagga Wagga and Darwin and other names like that Melbourne, Christchurch, Dunedin and all that sort of thing, and the Americans had Massachusetts and New

York and you used to know which carriage you were in, see. Oh, they were lovely trains and of course, me being a train fanatic, I loved it. You weren’t allowed to ride in the engine though which disappointed me. And then they had a lot of electric trains which they got back as soon as they could and one fellow said to me one day, “You know, the Yanks must have been rotten pilots.” I said, “Now what do you mean?” And he said,

“Look, all these buildings are down and yet they couldn’t hit the railway.” I said, “You must be an idiot.” I said, “They were bombing the railway.” And what do you think the Japanese did. The first thing back was the railway. I said, “You don’t worry about your buildings, you want your roads for transport.” Oh…bright. If they’d sit down in a hurry, they’d get brain damaged some of them. Anyway, the railways were in perfect,

wonderful nick and as I’ve said, they were fed and they were looked after. If they played up they lost their jobs. Well, of course to lose your job in the Occupation Force was dynamite. Mind you, you do understand that the Japanese government paid for them. We didn’t pay for them because that was PD [procurement demand] and we wanted labour so if we said that we wanted a thousand yen or 10

thousand yen or whatever the thing was to do a job, the Japanese government provided it. Now that’s a loose way of telling it, the way they did it, PD, you see. The Japanese used to plead for jobs, house girl’s ooh! They’d look after you and they were a bit easy going with me because I was a bit easy going but nevertheless, I just had to say ‘this’ or if I didn’t, they couldn’t understand me, called an interpreter because I didn’t speak Japanese and

say I wanted this, that and the other and they would do it. Some of them would even take your shirts home and sew the buttons and iron them. Now that’s how good, oh it was wonderful. I got on very, very well. Somebody said, “You love them, don’t you.” I said, “No, I love people.” And I said, “I don’t ask them whether their, what religion or who they vote for and so forth,” I said, “I just like to be with them.” And one day, we’re getting on a little bit now,

there was a position in the district and the Japanese wanted a University built in Kure rather than in the city of Hiroshima, where the bomb dropped and there was 17 miles difference and they asked the Occupation Force boys to vote for them well of course, it was pretty meaningless, so one fellow came to me and he said “Govett san,

Neville san,” whatever they called me you see, and, “Why Australians, so many men named Ned Kelly, Ned Kelly?” I said “Oh yes, a lot of Ned Kelly’s around.” And then one said, “The American boys,” he said, “Jessie James.” Every bloody Australian was saying Ned Kelly, you see, Ned Kelly and Jessie James so I don’t think that position

got too far but I’ll always remember it. Oh dear, I’ll always remember that. Ned Kelly and Jessie James, anyway,

Oh, that bloody machinery.

We had BRINDIV[British and Indian Division] which is India’s, and New Zealand, a few Canadians and Australia. Well eventually, the British force was represented

only by Australia, the others went home. The Indians were up North near Okayama and you had to get permission in writing to go from a British sector to American and then you had to get permission to go to Okayama. You see, they had to control you. Some of the fellows, I would have sent a lot of them home for the

way they went on.

Well, they didn’t want to obey the law and they were a nuisance. A nuisance, see. And anyway, the Occupation continues and the Australians had turned over troops then they stopped sending too many young troops there. I didn’t want any of them in my sector but I was only an ordinary, every day digger but then we

had movies, we had a theatre. Mind you, it wasn’t a war time and the discipline was such that if troops, as I remember it, if any of the troops played hocus pocus with a girl and the girl complained, they didn’t just simply say, well he’s an Occupation Force man. There’d be discipline

taken against the boy. The best thing in my opinion was to send him home and discharge him. That was my attitude. Well, anyway there were Australian girls who had opportunities of going there to get into civilian jobs and I never took notice of most of ‘em and…

Oh, I wasn’t interested, I mean after all,

I was a free man wasn’t I?

No, I wasn’t really, no, no, no.

No, it was my way of life. My way of life. I had a very nice girlfriend back in Australia that I’d known for years. She died 10 days ago. She was 91. I’ll tell you too. She was

Joyce Mary Daddo and she is the great aunt of Lochie and Cameron and all these other Daddo boys, and I knew her for 72 years.

Well, I didn’t. See you go, “oh honey” you go away and your life changes. I mean marriages broke up with fella’s getting connected to other girls. Are you keen to get me married or

something or other, I’ve got to watch you. Anyway, no I just wasn’t that way, and wasn’t that way inclined, but you see as a single man, sadly as I am now, I was the master of my own destiny and all I had to do was obey the law and I could get away. Now, there were dances held

and Australian girls and men went along but there was also Taxi dancing?

Well, it means that they had a Japanese hall and Japanese girls were partners and you bought a strip of tickets and you could say, “Here, Topsy, I’ll dance with you,” and she’d dance with you. One girl told me she had 3 children and

she liked my dancing so I gave her the whole strip, and I gave her some money as well. Mind you, they didn’t make a noise about it. They just, we used to like to do it and the military police would come in and see that there was no hocus pocus, is a good Japanese expression that I’ll use. No, the Japanese had to be protected as well as you, see. Of course, there was the other side where all the red lights flared and

I wasn’t interested in that, but that’s how we used to go with the Japanese. You were not under any circumstances allowed to take a Japanese girl home. You were not allowed into their homes. You can’t have democracy without discipline. Now we had tennis clubs and cricket and football and the Japanese used to come down and watch the games and they were allowed in.

After all, the idea was to get them back and… “We’re not going to dominate you but we want to show you how we live and live in peace.” And some of those people were very clever and very nice. Oh they’d give you a present or anything like that. Make a, “you have baby sir or girlfriend,” and they’d try and make a little dress or something. I’m telling you the true story too. Now, alright, I’ve talked a lot about our recreation,

I’ll continue for a while. They formed a camera club and I went along one night and most fortunately I heard a man mention that they’d formed a touring club that would go to various places, so I said, “May I join?” And the fellow said, “Oh yes, alright.” So, they were in the Education Corps see, and I got into this club and it was the best thing I ever did.

We used to go in trucks to various shrines and factories, railway yards and then we had boats, pinnas, boats from the navy and we’d go out and do the Inland Sea and we’d enjoy ourselves that way, then we were allowed to form a group and go a couple of hundred miles or to another island like Shikoku,

we were on Honshu and we were allowed to go to Shikoku. Now, every time you went you had to have an officer, person in charge, the senior officer was in charge and somebody was elected president. You had a meeting and we used to decide we’d go to a certain place and they, you had to have a strict manifest. Well, you see, if they fell over the

boat and got drowned, one boy fell and he was eaten by barracuda within minutes. A boy named Hutchinson, such a lovely fellow. Very fine boy and you had to be careful. You had to account for everyone. It wasn’t as though you went up there for a holiday. Some of the girls went up, thought they were having a holiday, but they soon learnt otherwise, see and…

No, I personally didn’t. I just knew him well. He was unfortunately

on the ship the same day as I was, the boat, yeah. Tripped and fell, went off the side and they searched for him. Oh! Took him to pieces. Oh, it was tragic. See well, a tragedy like that you have to account for the person. As you went on the ship of an afternoon, say a Sunday, it would be a relaxing day, you’d stand at the barricade, you had to give your name,

“Oh yes, Bill Smith,” and, “Corporal.” “Hi Major.” “Hello Neville.” Very much Neville and Major, you would, officer’s would address you, they call you sergeant or something sometime but half of them used to come and say to the lower ranks what will we do now? And some of the boys used to be able to tell ‘em. Well, I got elected President of the club four times.

Three months and I had a pretty open hand and people used to say, “Major Smith aren’t you in charge?” and he used to say, “No, Neville’s in charge. I do as he tells me.” See, and that was the brighter side to the Occupation see and, we had all these wonderful trips. We had to take our own food. Now, the great thing in the army at that time was a cut lunch.

The greatest thing in the world, a cut lunch, I take ‘em to the footy. Well, I’m not going to pay $4.00 for a pie. So anyway, oh very dear now food at football and that sort of thing. So, I would take my cut lunch and we’d pool them and we’d eat it. If you ever had food over, you left it for the Japanese. Never take food back

to camp. We had plenty so, give it to the Japanese and you’d see the poor devils, fellows on the ships that were soaking and working these ships, you’d see them put them in their tins and take them home to their children and families. That’s a lovely thing about the Easterners to see how they look after the children. I really, it really impressed me, it was a tremendous thing for me.

Oh, children were

first. Kiddies, they carried them on their backs you see, and you’d see the little one and if you were walking past or they were looking in the shop and you happened to be near them and the little one was there and the little one might reach out, you know, and if you showed any love and affection to the child, they would go crazy for the most part. Yes, oh yes. And I often pampered the children and we’d give the little kiddies sweets or give them to Mum or Dad for the

sweets, and if you had food with you, you weren’t supposed to do it but bugger that, we used to. Well after a while, I was in my 30’s I wasn’t a young school boy and you’d, if Mum or sometimes Dad had a bag you would just drop a sandwich or something in it. Oh yes, it was sneaky things. I was part of it, too. I played the game. Oh no, I don’t care who knows but,

I got on very well and the little children would all come up and look at you. Of course, no language or anything at all and you’d call them “Topsy” and “Vovo” and everything else and pat them on the head, and some of the people would send their children over to see you. See, the trust, it was a trust. I mean it wasn’t all left, right, left, right, Heil Hitler and all that, no, no, no, no. It was a wonderful time and the other things I

of course, in my transport duties, I had to go in to the Supply depot and you used to see the stacks and stacks of food and they had trusted men, trusted Japanese men to look after them and they were told, “If you’re caught stealing, you’re gone, you’re out, finished,” so of course that kept them into line and if tins or anything fell over and got damaged they’d put them out

in a box wherever you might have had the arrangement, but they were never allowed to take the food out officially, see. I think they might have gone out to the fence, thrown it over and some convenient person… Look when you have a Depression or you have a war, it’s marvellous what you do. I never believed that you’d change, people would change like that. I’ll tell you something about Australian and Japanese soldiers

in the Korea section a little bit later on. Anyway, what else did we do? Oh, yes we used to occasionally take Japanese staff to help us on the train and fortunately, the man who was in charge, he was 2 years younger than I, he was a Major, his widow rings me up occasionally and we have a talk. He was very good to the Japanese and some people used to say you don’t get friendly with the Japanese, and I said look, this is life

in the Occupation and we used to look after ‘em. I mean a person is human, you give a dog a pat or a drink, the dog likes you. Now I don’t compare the Japanese with dogs but the war criminal person was looked after. Now, I had the occasion once I got a trip to Tokyo escorting supplies

and the war crimes were on and I saw all the Japanese lined up, and we didn’t have head phones because it was all in English. The French and other people who were in the judges, some of them had microphones and the Japanese who were allowed in to see it, all had Japanese headphones and the two interpreters were marvellous. Almost

constant, they could flow the words out and Togo would stand up and Togo and, I can’t think of them, the other names but they were all there as criminals, I saw them brought in, and it is something that I will never forget. Of course, I’d forgotten it until I was speaking here to you.

Being at the War Crime Trials, being there. You see, they hanged them.

We didn’t see them hang but they were hanged there, not in that particular place, but they were found guilty. And there was, the Australian man Webb, who’s the uncle of my niece’s husband, he was the Chief, Webb, and then there was English, French, Indian, Dutch, Philippine and a couple of others, all in a row there, the judges and all translated,

those who didn’t speak English and finally they gave out their decision that the men were guilty and some were not, but most of them were guilty. And I always remember that Sir William Webb, coming from here where there’s no capital punishment or for years, he wanted the prisoners put on islands and kept there but the others said

no, no, no, no it’s no good, no, no, no. So he was overruled by his other judges and they gave him a, the drop and one morning I remember, I opened the local paper called The ‘BCON’ British Commonwealth Occupation News and there was ‘Japanese Criminals Executed’ and it came quite by surprise, the way it was done. I believe

was, the officer of the day who was an American in the American Sugumo, I think the name of the jail. He was on duty and he didn’t know that it was on and they said, men are going to be executed today, or they being the authorities, and there was an American, master sergeant I think was the executioner, and the Japanese

people. I think he was the man, they hang them, four at a time. Oh what was it? The officer in charge had no choice, he stood there when the signal came he raised his salute and as he put his hand down ‘PEWWW bang’, away they went and they were executed. And then of course, down in Singapore in a lot of the places they were executed. A German soldier said to me in Germany, many years

after the war, “Why did they execute Generals?” And I said, “Well, after all, they were the men responsible weren’t they?”

Yeah.

Yeah, that’s right, yeah, yeah. I’ve got my ticket. I’ve got probably a picture of my ticket.

Oh, with permission, yes. Japanese would line up and the Americans would check them with Japanese Police

see, they’d be checked in, bags were searched and in they went and they sat in the Japanese sector. They were showing the Japanese the democratic way of doing things. The Americans are the allies, more so the Americans were trying to show the Japanese, our way of doing things. You can come in and listen, you go to the defence. No, behind the wall, I was there, Japanese were over there and I was sitting here. Front

rower I am, good front rower I am, and I saw the, I think I went in the morning, the morning session. 11am, I don’t know how long the trials lasted. International War Tribunal I think they call it but I didn’t lose any opportunity of seeing this. You see, as an older man, repeating that I was in my mid 30’s, I was learning.

Fellows that had been just a little unemployed, fellow and worked in Australia, I saw this opportunity. That’s why I didn’t want any girlfriends or anything and I went everywhere I possibly could. Now, the Japanese, ah pardon me the tourist club where we had an interpreter, wonderful little man, he died only about 2 years ago. He spoke English very well and he would guide us and we gave him food and presents

and everything else. We went many places and I climbed Mt Fuji in 1949. I got to the top 12,946 feet. I’ll never forget it. You’d climb up the side and then you’d get into the ash and then you’d slide back, if you went up 10 feet you’d slide back 15 so you’d have to go… oh, you were filthy, but now there’s a train or

something on rope, cable tram up the side. Yes, I got up to on the top.

Oh yes.

Oh yes, there were all the judges with their flags behind them, up at

the top and the Japanese were, marched in, American military police in with their helmets, they wore the cork helmets, they didn’t have the seal so, it got too heavy to carry all day, you see, and they examined every chair, every seat. Made us fill out a form as you went in and when I went in they looked me up and down. I didn’t think I’d have to do a search,

we went in and they stood behind you. All the place was loaded with police, Americans, Americans, all Americans and everybody stood when the judges came in and you stood when they went out, and Togo was in the front, I remember that, front rower and they, of course, they had to be accused in Japanese, and then

sometimes there was a delay in the procedure because it was English and then Japanese, were both broadcast see, and I don’t know what it’d be like today but 60 years ago, that’s how they did it.

That was the general

way it goes, they were like that but he wasn’t asking any opinion, they could have taken them outside and shot them and bulldozed and gone, but no there was this trial. It’s like Nuremburg where they had the Germans. What did they have? Twelve thousand, twelve hundred Germans build a hall if they, see they had no worry with labour, free, gratis, for nothing.

Sudaka, yes.

No, he was next to me and he worked for the local gas company. He thought I was wonderful. He spoke to me through an interpreter and said he wished to thank me for what I’d done for his wife and girl and daughter, and I sent back through the interpreter that the war was over and he was Japanese

citizen, and as far as I’m concerned his wife was very kind to me. Well, I gave her almost everything. You see she wasn’t a young frippity jippit girl. Some of them used to be very fresh and so forth, but never mind.

Yeah.

…we up to?

Oh, well I didn’t know that I was leading from that but still, yes sadly, some of the fellows were fraternising, that’s the word and they used to get themselves

into trouble. I don’t know, think they were colour blind, they used to go through ‘red lights’ if you follow me. And we had a special clinic on Hiroshima for all of ‘em and they went across and they all had to admit it because they were examined and they went to the College. Everybody used to call it the College, you see.

I don’t know how they qualified. At one stage of the game, I was all in favour of it, if you had a visit to the College and you were there for a week, you got no pay and I could see nothing wrong with that because you weren’t doing your job were you? See, they fed them but then something came about oh, something to do with the roads technicality and they were paid and

I didn’t want half of ‘em, I didn’t have ‘em in my section. I was just a lonely section leader but that’s it and then…

The College? No, I was never there. It was just simply a hospital. That was it’s name ‘The College’. “Where’s Joe?” “He’s in the College, qualifying.” He was getting treatment see and, it will go on, it goes on

all over the world, and I think if an officer ever found himself there he had a heavy cold. He had a heavy cold. But when the diggers were there, he was in trouble, so that’s that. Anyway, that didn’t worry me. I had too many things to do, to look after what I had to do.

No, you weren’t allowed for a while and then that was broken, bit like in Germany, but well, after all, there had to be rules didn’t there. See, General MacArthur was in Tokyo in the Dai Ichi Building, no Dai Ichi Building, No. 1, Dai Ichi No. 1, and he ruled the place

with iron fists. He was a tall fellow and people used to say that he was vain and arrogant, I suppose he had a bit of that about him but he was your Leader, he was your Leader, and I don’t know what the Land Command is in the United States Forces but some American boys were saying, we’re not allowed to do that. You might go to do something I don’t even know what I wanted,

we’re not allowed to do that, and there’s some that would do it and get caught and others, whatever it was I don’t know. Keep out of certain streets, look, hand it to the Americans and the senior British people, they were in a position to know. See, we had men like Commander Robinson, Red Robby and you didn’t look sideways at Red Robby and he was a good commander,

he was a good Australian soldier but it’s so different now, so different.

Oh, he treated us alright, we never had any trouble. Well, I didn’t have trouble because I didn’t look for it. There were fellows who would use the attitude of oh, who’s he? Or, what’s he? Oh, you don’t take any notice of that old so and so. You do. He was the commander. After all, that’s the way it goes?

Well, that was his nickname. See, he wore a red band around his hat and I suppose that’s how… he was a pre-war soldier see and I don’t know what they call General Cosgrove now but see, these are young boys, they were only in the Vietnam thing. We were in the real wars, how’s that? No, very different wars.

See they’ve got all their braid ribbons and so forth but they’re well trained men, probably Duntroon or so forth, but Red Robby, yes Red Robby. They gave their orders and you jumped. That’s the way it was. I had no trouble jumping and so forth. Look, go to, go do it with a will. You’ve joined the army, you’re there, the rules are this and you obey

them and that’s it. That’s the way it goes.

Well, it was a heavily bombed place. It was the town of the naval base. Now the naval base was really bombed and they caught ships and sank them. The Americans

really did and you see, they were getting to their navy and they’ve brought a ship, the Japs brought a ship in for repair, the Americans have followed and PTCHEWW and they really did, with their, specially with the B-29’s which are big planes, having no interest in aeroplanes I wouldn’t know too much, but damn good, and they wrecked the area. Oh, I’ve have pictures galore of the wreckage and

you would see later, monosigns we called them, monosigns and they would go into the ship’s, no war of course, they’d go into the ships and the men would undo the sub lids of the oil and they would bail out the oil and another woman would pull it up and they’d put it into a container,

down would go the bucket and they’d get the oil out. They were so desperate you see, the oil that had gone down with the ship that hadn’t been used see, and that’s how, oh yes, they used to go down like that. You’d see the poor devils coming up filthy, “go away, go away” sort of thing you’d have to say and the Japanese were treated well in as much as I remember.

The trucks were there and trucks would go down and perhaps take a load of them and bring them up into the city and drop them at a certain point, pick them up and take them back. That used to be on, not frequently but that was on. Then of course they had trams and so forth. Packed to the roof they were, oh, god, but we weren’t allowed on the trams. And then

as a sergeant I was lucky, I had a jeep and I was allowed to drive, big stuff and we used to drive around. You could never take a Japanese on though, oh no. That was right. Mind you, if a Japanese was on the jeep you’d want to know why, and they were there. Well, if you had some of the boys they’d grab a girl just put her on the jeep and probably disappear into the bush.

Oh yes, discipline. No, discipline I’m not frightened of discipline, I’m not frightened of it at all and, I mean I knew when to stand up and we knew when to sit down but they, they really worked, they worked well together. You’d probably get the Japanese and ratbags with stealing but they get dobbed in very easy too, by their mates because they didn’t want to lose their jobs.

After all if you’re starving and you can’t buy any food or that sort of thing, you, you do as you’re told, I think you do as you’re told, but I don’t know what the oil was for. I think they used to have tenders and they get oil and they’d bring so many people in to get the oil out, and I remember one day in my own camp, where the Japanese worked

freely, there was a man, shaved, what to do with…shavings, they have shavings…

Planing, and they have shavings you see, and the shavings are all put to one side. One little Japanese fellow came up to me and took off his hat and he bowed and I said yes, yes, yes. Aye, aye, aye. Please,

could he have the shavings? I said yes, he could have the shavings, so he was most grateful and he took the shavings, poured them into a bag and he had all… then he had to get out of the camp so I said to a Japanese boy, I think he was a Nisei, an American born Japanese who had American citizenship you see, and I said, “What

d’you want the shavings for?” One fellow said, “I don’t know what he’d want them for Neville, but he’d probably make a 100 yen by selling them.” Amazing. So, I walked out of the gate of the camp and the guard was stopping and I said, “This man ok, please.” “Oh righto, Neville,” out the gate, yeah and all that sort of thing. Oh, he never wasted a thing, never wasted a thing.

Where I was?

Very large. It would have been, oh I don’t know I couldn’t describe it in acreage, it would have been… we were on a canal and, oh, let me see, where do you come from? Which city?

Brisbane oh, well it would have been about 3 times as large as the Gabba.

Yeah, 3 times the size of the

Gabba and one day I was down on the edge of the docks, the Japanese boy called me and he couldn’t speak any English and he pointed and there was a bloody big mine with these horns that floated under the pier. I didn’t stay on the pier, I moved away thank you, and the other fellows are all going down to have a look. I said, “It’s going to be funny if it blows up,” so we called the engineers who

were not far away and they came around in a boat see, and they deloused the mine. It just floated in, from the sea you see, it floated in. This is all that goes on. Oh yes, I remember that…

Oh yeah, quite a large number of trucks, I suppose about 90 in that

area, that was a good load. Then of course we used Japanese drivers see, and they had to have what they called a ‘work ticket’. We have them here or had them in Australia, a yellow ticket known as a G2. Every army ticket is numbered, G. G for transport and D for

hospital stuff I think, and anyway. A for admin, and they had on them in English what to do, and they would speak to the Japanese before they went out and the interpreter might say, you are to drive this truck to Karachi and go in to such and such a store and you’re to get so much. And the boy knew what to do, I mean they were intelligent. My little girlfriend there

married a Japanese driver. I must ring her up shortly, she’s not well. The only girl I’ve got left now in Japan. I taught her English and, what’s her name, Aserakara yes, she had a daughter who came out here and saw me but she’s gone back now. She married an Australian which I didn’t agree to but still, anyway, where was I up to, yes…

Oh, Japanese drivers yes, and they did very well. They wouldn’t dare go off their route because they knew that we’d say why did you use so much petrol? Oh, everything was done with a ticket. They had to get authority to go out. I was all for it. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Then of course, we had the guards on the palace and Australians

usually guarded the palace. One boy, very sad, he was one of these post war diggers and my admin sergeant, I was transferred and there was a boy called to the cabin workshops. Now Ernie, my sergeant, in my unit was really top authority,

and I, sad how I used to feel a bit different towards him you see, and he had a room there and I had a room there and the other fellow’s room down there and we were all looked after and, he was very friendly with this boy, very friendly, and he was telling me what a wonderful lad he was and I said, “He’s one of my drivers, Ernie and I don’t particularly like

his attitude,” and Ernie was, “Oh, I’ll look after him,” and so forth. And I thought, now, wait a minute, you won’t be looking after my driver. You had to use the word ‘my’ because you were in charge, as I say, we were only in sections, I was, I don’t mean as a senior man in the unit. So this boy got on the grog and his name, Noel Gillett, that’s his

name, Noel Gillett and Noel was becoming a bit of a bloody nuisance around the place which was sad. I wanted to send him home but I didn’t have a say. Now, we used to have to, we, never, Ernie, Govett and another fellow whose name has eluded me, I just told you who he was now I’ve forgotten his name, we picked say 10 men

each and those 30 men were sent with others to Tokyo for guard duty. Now, I would have given almost anything to have gone to Tokyo for 2 months on guard duty because you’d have a day off and you could do what you like, go to Mt Fuji and round the shopping area, what was the name of the place, the Ginza. Oh, it was wonderful. See, it was all on for these young fellows, they didn’t understand their responsibility.

So, I wouldn’t let Noel go and marvellous the authority he had as a young person so, anyway, Ernie called me, and he said, “Did you know that one of your men on the Tokyo guard has taken ill?” I said, “No, I didn’t.” So he said, “He had to be replaced.” I said, “Oh, I’ll replace him.” “Oh,”

he said, “Don’t worry, I sent young Noel.” I said, “You had no right to do that,” I said, “Fair go,” I said, “Noel was the one that was banned from going and you send him.” “Oh,” he said, “I exercised authority,” and thought bugger you. So anyway, this boy, my senior sergeant he was on his way to Australia to a school, an army school, you see

the next night, and he managed to get this boy a trip up to Tokyo and it was done with that sort of a “well Govett can get lost” so I still wanted, didn’t like, want this boy to go so anyway, that was alright. Now the boy got to Tokyo and there were a lot of others and they were a bit of ratbag types, I’m straight forward. They were ratbags and

we had trains in Tokyo on the loops. We were on the Amata loop you see, the trains went around in loops. If you missed your station you stayed there and it eventually came around the loop you see, and the front carriage of the train always carried this big white mark, Allied Personnel only. Well,

now let me get this straight, I was not there but it was my unit, a boy named Mackie was with him and he, they were both drunk and they were making fools of themselves on the station. The Japanese were laughing and standing back. Now, the American Police were often on the station but they weren’t there at this particular time however,

Noel was so intoxicated, which was a disgrace for an Occupation soldier to be that way, he stumbled right in front of the train. Finished him, killed him outright you see. In the meantime, two American MP’s [Military Police] had

rushed to the scene. Somebody had called them, see and they were armed, of course they were always armed, see and this other boy, Mackie, is having a go at them and he’s wrestling with the American military police and trying to get his revolver so that he could shoot the driver. Now that’s one of the mad things that happens. Well, that was around about 23 December.

What year I can’t remember, ’46 or ’47 it doesn’t matter and I rushed into him, I was told 600 miles away and I rushed into my Commander and he said, “What’s the matter Govett?” I said, “Sir, one of your soldiers has been killed in Tokyo.” “What, what?” I said, “Yeah, hang on.” He said, “Sorry Neville, what do you know?” and I told him. He

said, “He’s dead isn’t he?” I said, “Yes, he’s dead.” So anyway, I don’t know what transpired but I said to the Commander, I think it was Bill Day, it was Bill Day, “Can I take a few boy’s up to his funeral sir?” “Oh” he said, “Yes Neville, do that, do that”, so we got a laurel wreath see, and on Christmas Day

about half a dozen of us dressed to the nine’s, white webbing and polished brass. Hats to this, slope and all that sort of thing, rifles and… Rifles? Rifles, no, no we didn’t take our rifles and we got on the train on Christmas Day, the Allied Limited – Allied, Dixie and Yankee Limited they were, and

they were very long trains and they had priority but the Japanese could slot them into, oh they were good, good stuff and… on the train it was Christmas Day and the Americans were there with their women and daughters and wives etcetera and I said, “Are we privileged to go there?” And the American boy said to me, “Oh yes,” he said, “you’re a passenger on the train,

you get a free meal.” I’ll never forget that Christmas meal. Oh, can the Yanks do it! Oh, god. From cold water to I don’t know what. We had Christmas pudding, roast beef and everything. All American of course. Oh, I tell you what, I’ve never had a meal like it. A fellow said to me, “Neville, it’s sad we’re going to a funeral but look at this meal,” so then we had a steaming car and when we arrived in

Yokohama, we didn’t go right through to Tokyo, there was somebody there to meet me and he said, “Sergeant Govett?” and I said, “Yes,” he said, “It’s Boxing Day,” and I said, “Yes, that’s true,” he said, “I’ll take you and the boy, we’ve got another car, we’ll take you to the Yokohama Cemetery,” see, so Noel was taken out and it was

Boxing Day. oh well that didn’t mean anything and, we had a group of boys “rifle fire” and I placed the wreath down, and we said respects to the boy, BANG, BANG, BANG and he was lowered in and that was it. So then, we went back to, my group went back to what they called the BCO, the camp for the Occupation British and we were

doing it quietly, then we were told we could have a day in Tokyo and I said oh, that’s good so, we took the day off, the next day I think it was and then we had to get down, I’m not sure which train we went down on now, but we were taken back to Kure and I, I was sent for and they asked me questions

and I said yes, the boy was buried with full honours and so forth, and they said well you’d better go and check his bags and things, Neville. Anyway, that was that. I did go to a second funeral up there. A man named Gadsby, Sailor Gadsby and Gadsby was a big fellow, a private, he was not young and he had a

family grown up and he did as he liked you see, poor old Sailor and he worked on an Occupation Force farm which was at Karachi, and they used to grow vegies for the Occupation troops and the Japanese of course, did all the work. One day he’s ended up in a blister wagon, have you any idea what a blister wagon is? Well a blister wagon

is a four wheel vehicle with the engine right up and you sit next to it and the passenger sits next to it and they have 2 sealed doors. Now you have also a strap over yourself because you could get thrown from it you see, a blister wagon and we went to, he came into the camp with the

Japanese boy, they came in to get something, 17 miles away and I happen to be on guard duty and I said to Gadsby, “Why aren’t the Japanese driving?” “Ooh,….mind your own bloody business,” and all the rest of it and I said right, so he went into the camp and he did what he had to do and he came out. When he came out, he’d taken the

door off. Open the sealed door then close, only about that deep the door and I said, “Get out of the seat. Let the Japanese boy drive. He is the driver, you do as you’re told.” I said, and the Japanese boy got in and the Japanese boy was a bit like this so I said he’s alright. So, I don’t know what he had in the truck, food I suppose, like hard rations. Now, I said, “Don’t you cause me any trouble Sailor,”

I said to him, “You’re troublesome enough as it is.” I hate saying this 60 years later, but its true. Well, the next thing was, several hours later the Japanese Police are on to us see, and somebody said to me do you know what the police want? And I said no, I don’t. “Well,” he said, “I’ll tell you. Gadsby’s dead.” I said, “What?” “Yeah, Gadsby’s dead.”

Now what had happened was, the Japanese boy was saved. He got thrown out. In Japan, you don’t have the room, in those old days, they were earth and roads with big gutters, earth and gutters and you couldn’t get past if you had 2 big vehicles, you had to give in. Back up and so forth and let the other fellow through. Japanese little vehicles could get through and the Japanese boy told me that

when we, he had only got about half a mile out of the camp, out of sight, Sailor had said to him “Get out,” see, drunk as you like. He got out, pushed the Japanese boy out and ah, mizoo, mizoo, Japanese for water.

He got out and the Japanese boy had to sit in the passenger seat and the Japanese boy “… but Sergeant say this.” “Never mind about me” or any other person see, and they drove along the main road to Hiroshima turning off at Karachi. When they got there, Sailor was pushing her around a bit, he got too far to the edge. CRASH!

Down he went into the gutter and he got caught and something hit him. The Japanese boy climbed out and he was killed on the spot. He demanded he would drive. Now, I do know that Sailor was having a bit of trouble with his family and he was away from them, you see and he didn’t care.

Well, Sailor was killed, the Japanese boy got out and we, the interpreter, the police, I didn’t have anything to do with it, said that they had, the boy was so scared and they said, “Because you’re alive, he’s dead and no, we’re not blaming you, you weren’t driving,” see and he was illegally driving. So, my commander said to me,

“Well Neville, your problem now.” He said, “We’ll arrange for Sailor to be buried in this country and you’d better go to the funeral.” I said, “Oh yes, I will, right, right I will.” See so anyway we had a Benefit Night for Sailor, a bit of a gambling night, what was the game? Bingo, bingo. And, I

think they collected 2 or 300 pounds. I don’t think his wife ever knew. I hope she’s not listening now. I don’t think she ever knew that Sailor lost his life in those circumstances and back to Yokohama Cemetery and Sailor was laid to rest and as the casket was going into the grave, it was contained or his

body was contained in a blanket or something in the sealed container and I said, “Well at least we could have put his head the right way around,” oh god, these things that… and anyway, that was for Sailor, he left but those are two funerals I had. When I went back many years later, I wanted to go in and they wouldn’t let me in the cemetery. I wanted to go and say hello

to the boys, you know.

Don’t know, don’t know. Foreigner. Anyway, that’s that. I don’t know why, Leila said to me that’s very rough, and I said never mind, never mind, it’s just a memory and I thought that while we were… see I’d been back 10 times and it wasn’t to be. See, I’m giving you my memories aren’t I?

Oh, good show.

Oh, I’d say there were. I never had any trouble with them. I mean if a Japanese came up and started to abuse, all I had to do was to call someone and you held him, he was for sayonara. Oh, no there were a few, yes a few, yes, yes. They thought their power had gone you see,

but no. Well, I was a lucky man, I think because I treated them well, I was well looked after. Oh yes, I had a wonderful time when I was there. Tourist club went everywhere. I mean, fancy, imagine the weekend, “What are you doing at the weekend?” “I’m going out with the tourist club.” You’d go to places like Miojima and you might have a day at Nerome and then go back on to the

little craft and back and on the trains and we’d get Japanese people come along and talk to us, some of it was interpreted and some they could speak English and that was the amenities side of things. We all had our jobs and had a few civilians. They had the Canteen Services and I was on Transport and then, eventually

Supply. I mean life goes on, whatever time it is now, the hours go by, don’t they? And then comes meal time, wash-up time. It isn’t as though it’s just there, like the Hollywood pictures.

I was there for 5 I think, yeah 5, yes. Well, I had no wish to come back. I was doing

all right, I was doing all right and leading a new life.

Oh, we used to go and see the Shinto-priests banging their gongs and throwing their rice and water around. Didn’t ask too many questions.

Some people thought they knew a lot. I said oh, I can see, BRRR, BRRR with the old camera and I saw a lot. I used to write down my report, story. My diary is in the Mitchell Library. Somebody said, “Why didn’t you keep it?” I said, “Well, it’s better there.” I mean it would have been useful here today but how many years are they after now. You weren’t

born when I was doing it. No. Oh, we went to a bicycle race one day and saw a bicycle race and I backed no. 5 and they all laughed. He apparently was the donkey, he ran last. And they, “Oh but no. 5, dabi, dabi,” meaning no good and I said, “I don’t know.” I put 100 yen on him I think, oh dear but they became very friendly after a while. There were things

that I didn’t know because after all, I was only one of the troops.

Well, I mean I wasn’t aware what the top secret stuff was and so forth. You’d get an order to do something. As did others, I wasn’t the only one. By the way, may I just give a commercial here. I talked of the death of 2 boys. I think the saddest one of all, although I was a little bit

indifferent towards the 2 that had been lost in Japan, but as the war was drawing to an end and we were for this Balikpapan job, it was pouring with rain one day in Sydney and I said, “What’s the orders?” to an Officer and he said, “Sergeant, you and many others are going to Melbourne.” I said, “Melbourne?” He said, “Yes,

you’re going to Melbourne.” Well, I didn’t know why. You don’t ask you go, see so, I think what they were going to do was recruit us in Melbourne for this Balikpapan business and there was a ship going to take us from Melbourne right around to Balikpapan. I think so. I think that was the idea, and anyway waste was terrific. Nobody gave a

stuff about it, waste. And there was a man named David John O’Leary, and O’Leary was married with 3 children and he lived in Hamilton in Victoria but he was a troublesome fellow and I said to him, “Paddy, for god’s sake do as you’re told for a change, get into line and have your meal,” and that sort of thing so. Did I say it was pouring

pick handles, oh pouring and it was a Friday night, Sydney was still active and we knew the war was obviously coming to an end, and in fact it would have been June, June, July, August yes only 8 more weeks and anyway, Paddy big fellow and he had a big overcoat and he had his hat on and he said, “ I demand a meal.”

And I said, “Look, you disobeyed an order. You didn’t go for your meal so as far as I’m concerned, I don’t have to provide you with one.” I said, “We had a beautiful meal.” Can’t even remember it, chop suey with baked beans but still, they wanted it. Anyway, I said, “There are girls on the platforms here with trolleys and they are selling bread rolls and other things, you can buy it!” They were

refreshment girls from the New South Wales Railways. “No, …” he was raving and ranting so I let him go. So, when we got on our carriage, I was the sergeant in charge of the carriage and I said nobody leave the train. If you get off the carriage, stand at the door, now don’t go wandering around. You didn’t want to

keep ‘em locked up in a carriage. It was a sleeper-type of carriage with palliance and store and so forth, and beds and the boys stood there and they talked and they had drinks, soft drinks I might add and Paddy and a young boy named Cook, I think his name was Cook or he was a cook, I’m not quite sure on that boy, and Paddy looked

out over the line and he could see that it was very easy to get on to the other platform which was the electric commuter in Sydney, the old red cars you see and I said nobody move, just behave yourself. We’ll be leaving in a few minutes, and I knew it was going to be about half an hour but all of a sudden there was a yell, “Neville, Neville, Sergeant, Sergeant.” And I said, “Yes?” And he said, “I

think Paddy’s been killed.” I said, “What?” “Well, an electric train came in and then it went out and when it went out, the boy Cook was white.” Oh, talk about white as snow. He was hanging onto a pole on the Sydney Central station and I said to somebody, what’s happened?

He said, “This boy was full clear but yer mate Paddy’s been cut in half.” “Damn it.” Bloody rain pelting down so anyway, what he’d done was, he’d jumped across from the train to the rail and he couldn’t get up and of course round the curve came the commuter, went on to Chatswood, killed a man at

Chatswood and went on to Hornsby, and that’s how things were that night. Some fool had gone back to get his hat, well I mean the train driver’s there. He’s not expecting some fool to … anyway, this is back in Australia of course, and I rushed up the platform and got hold of the officer in charge of the train and he had to circle around and I said, “Look, sorry, sorry sir,” you know. “One of your troops has been killed.” “So, what carriage?” I said,

“567,” whatever it was, and the officer in charge rushed out.

Well, with that change of reel, let me finish this sad story. I don’t know what happened, I didn’t see his body. I think it must have been pushed in between a train and a platform and he rolled down you see. The other boy got up. He got back on the train and by golly did he… he was absolutely like this. Well, why not! He’d missed death by a whisker anyway.

There were newspaper reporters around and I said to me troops, pardon the expression, ‘my troops’. “No names nothing, talk to nobody. Don’t give any stories out.” And one fellow said his name was Paddy O’Leary, I said, “Why did you say that?” So, I didn’t know that there was a reporter there so,

we went on to Albury to change on to Melbourne and I said to the officer, “What are we going to do about this tragedy, sir?” And he said, “Well look, Neville I’ve written out a report,” he said, “then his wife will be notified.” Did you know that poor woman picked up the morning paper and read that her husband was dead. So,

I don’t speak to reporters now. I always remember that, I believe, see I never met Mrs O’Leary but Paddy was killed on the station and she reads it in the paper. All because somebody opened their mouth anyway, that bring us to a halt?

Yes, I thought I’d better tell you about Paddy, it was

so sad.

Oh, about 5 I think.

Of course during that time, the Korean War broke out and I got drafted to Korea and that’s it. Well, anything else you’d like to know in the meantime.

No, I did not, I went from

Japan to Korea.

Yes but by then I’d joined the regular army and it was 6 years and well, we’d better go back a bit because… I was

in Japan and don’t think it was all play, to some it was but they were a menace. We had supply and transport and engineering jobs and of course a lot of the labouring was done by Japan boys and the, oh yes, before we talk about Korea the war was, the Occupation was obviously

coming to an end. The Allied powers and I think the United Nations had been formed and the Allied powers were talking about withdrawing you see and the Americans I think, said they’d never withdraw and their still there in certain groups, so I believe. And

I was with the oldest man to go over beyond Stanley Ranges, a civilian who had been in the air force. A young boy who was quite good, quite a good lad and myself and we formed a group and we called ourselves The Annex, and we had permission.

The Annex.

A double N E X from the Touring Club you see. The Touring Club

had colonels and all sorts of people, yes and we, even though I should go back further. Yes, I will to. It won’t hurt. Plenty of film. In this wonderful Touring Club we had, we had Saturday afternoons off and Sunday and holidays, but of course we had all the English holidays. The Bank Holiday, we had the lot, you

see and some of us worked, I hope, very hard. I think I mentioned to you that I’d been on Guard Duty on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve which was a little bit hurtful, never mind. Now this Touring Club was excellent. I’d been taking films and we had visited outlandish places and we learnt about the Japanese and we were a good group, we were doing well and people couldn’t understand

that the sergeant was telling the officers what to do. That didn’t go down with the Japanese and our interpreter was asked why. And he said, “Ah, the sergeant here is very clever,” and the officers respect him you see, and they are not in the army, they’re just Mr Jones and Bill and Tom, Dick and Harry and so forth. So that was alright, and then one day we allowed women

to come provided they didn’t displace a soldier and we had a wonderful trip lined up. It was to the island of Shikoku. Shi meaning four, the fourth island. Train to Yokohama, same train to Uno, Uno not Wano, Uno U N O and the train was shunted, less the engine

on to the ferry and we sailed across to this island. Then it hooked up with another engine and we went around that island for 3 days you see. Oh, talk about fabulous. There’s a bridge over there now. Now, cameras, we had cameras. I was the only one I think that really put the things together and there were 3, 3 girls, Lou Higgins,

a girl named Sue Bloch and there was a girl named Leila Burns, and I said oh, yeah and they had to have their names on the manifest you see. And I’d been appointed president, would call out your name and when I called your name, you got on the carriage, that’s the only way that we could do it you see. And, we worked in a siding and Kure was a stop where they

rewatered at least, they rewatered there. You were usually there for half an hour so, I’m well, you’d better get aboard, righto, Smith, Jones, Brown, Johnson, Captain Johnson. “Righto, Neville,” and get going you see and Major Bloggs, “Bloggs, Major?” “Right, right Neville,” and when I got down to the girls I said,

“Sue Bloch, Lou Lou Higgins,” and she would always curtsy. She’d be about 95 now Lou if she’s still with us and she would always curtsy. A bit of a devil, you know. “Get on the train,” see, and then the other girl got on and when I was standing there I said, “Hey, I told you to get on the train,”

and she looked at me and I said, “Get on the bloody train and don’t argue,” and she said to one of the other girls, “I’ve never been spoken to like that before,” and the other girl who was a bit experienced said, “You don’t argue with sergeants. If he tells you to get on the train, you get on,” and she said, “Did you see how we got on? He doesn’t want you off the platform?” And I said, “What’s your name?” “Mrs Burns,” and she

said, “I’m Miss Burns.” And I said, “Well get on the train just the same and stay there.” So she got on and she was shaking and the other girl said, “Look, they don’t ask you ‘Miss’, ‘Please’, ‘make sure you get on the train and stay here,’” she said, “they’re so powerful, he could tell you to take your bag and get off the train and stay here. Now, don’t miss this opportunity and by the way, he’s really a very nice fellow but he’s not going to be

fooled around.” She said, “Did you see the way the officers and all said ‘yes Neville’ and got on the train?” “Oh,” she said, but that was no good to her. She wasn’t going to speak to me again see, so anyway, she was very nice, I rather liked her and train, we got hooked up and went away and I, the following morning I went down to the Section where the girls were and I said righto, and one girls said, “You may come in Sergeant.” The one acting the

goat was me and I got this other one and I said, “Listen Arty you’d better wake up.” “Go away.” “Get up or you’ll have no breakfast.” So, they said if he said get up, get up. They’re not interested in whether your tired, that’s the law. I mean discipline you see. So, she said no, I won’t ever speak to that man again, he’s the rudest man I’ve ever met, and the other 2 girls laughed, see, ’cause they knew the

drill you see, and I’d say, “Where is Miss Higgins please?” And she’d say, “I’m here, Sergeant.” Oh, she was a devil. I’m not young you see and she’d say, “I’m going over here Sergeant,” and I’d say, “You be careful.” She was going to the toilet you see “you be careful” so, the fellows used to all laugh and we’d go our way. We had boats hired to take us out, interpreters to tell us about the place. Look, a person

that missed the opportunity, lost so much. You see, most of the boys were non-drinkers and they would take notes and cameras and pictures so you see, how wonderful the opportunity was that the Education Corps had formed this club so anyway, we got back and I said ooh, you’re going to like that, and of course we were back you see, and I’d counted the heads and they were all back and

I’d met this girl uptown, she didn’t speak to me. Huh! She was very, very off colour, with me you see so anyway, years went by and so forth, and a girl here in Brisbane met Leila one day and she said, “I believe when you were first in Japan, you met a man that was terribly rude to you,” and Leila said, “Yes, I did.” She said, “I wonder what happen to him?” Leila said, “Don’t worry, I married him.”

That’s where I met Leila, on a train.

Well, she didn’t. It was either talk to me or bugger off, she had no choice and eventually we married.

Pictures or dances.

Oh, in Japan, yes.

She

was a very efficient, very efficient shorthand typist and could, she could be left alone. In fact one night at 2 o’clock in the morning, they wanted something urgent and they said, “Miss Burns, get Miss Burns. There’s no other person reliable.” She never made a mistake. She never made a mistake in marriage either, she married me, see. Big Deal! So, we had to

get permission to be married.

Oh, well it’s part of army life. Oh yes, you just don’t say I’m married. You see, now the Japanese couldn’t marry, I don’t think they can now, they can’t marry you. Marriage as you would know is a law of the State not of the Church and Leila said, “I’d like to be married in the Church,” and I said, “Oh, that suits me. I’m a church going man,” so anyway,

we were married in a Church which is now a storehouse and snowflakes fell on the day, and then we had permission and people came to our wedding and so forth, and my mother said, “You’re getting married. Where?” and I said, “In Japan” “Why?” I said, “Well, that’s where I’ve got to get married.” I didn’t say, “I wouldn’t have you around Mum.” Oh

mother would have wrecked that marriage, oh yes.

Oh mother, mother had to control everything. Oh yes, yes. Poor Mum, the most wonderful woman in the world. She had to have a say, she was boss cocky. So anyway, they sent me a nice telegram and I’ve still got to go back further but I won’t do it at this moment. Anyway,

we got married in Hiroshima, then we took the train to Yokohama and I was picked up in a car and a fellow said “Hello Sergeant, marrying eh?” “Oh, yes. I’ve got a nice girl here.” So, Leila was very quiet and very humble and she got in the car, an army staff car and we went to the British Embassy and we

were married there. We were 52, they’d been 52 marriages or 51 and we were no. 52 so, the Consul was very nice and he said it’s nice to see 2 British people married here. He said New Zealander and an Australian, and I said “Why do you say that?” He said, “Oh, we have to marry sailors to Japanese girls,” and he said, “it’s not satisfactory.” I

Said oh yeah. So, they wished us well.

Oh, a sailor from a ship meets a Japanese girl and they got married. You can understand that it wasn’t like me and my other friends who were Occupation boys who married “white” girls, I’ll use that expression because the Japanese are “yellow” and he said he could see that we were going

to make a success of it. I said of course it will be successful, I don’t know how but it will be. So anyway, we were going to catch the 1st class train to Karazowa, all 1st class and luxury and very nice I should say, and we were driving to the station, I forget the name of the station now, taking a short cut and we ran into a market garden and

yeah that’s right, and Japanese people were struggling and so forth although their conditions had improved. You wouldn’t believe it. Some poor little devil, a fellow, he had a big trolley and it fell over and there were cabbages everywhere. It was pouring cabbages see, not pick handles, cabbages, see so the driver said to me, “What’ll I do Sergeant?” So I said, “Stop, don’t

dare go over the cabbages.” I said, “That’s an insult to Japanese and it’s an insult to me,” and Leila said, “Oh please don’t drive over the cabbages,” a lot of fellows would of you know. So, I got out of the car and I said to the driver you get out too, and oh, they were scared and the other Japanese were looking around. Of course, here’s me sergeant, pretty big, turned around and I said, “Oh dear, dami, dami,” meaning

bad, bad so he put his truck up, oh he was dead scared and I could see it. So, I started to pick up the cabbages and put them on the truck again you see, and I called the Japanese, come in, help and I said to the driver you do it too. Now, I’ll be honest. I was trying to make an impression on them that we weren’t ratbags

and this is the way we did it and he, oh the fellow was crying and he was bowing and bowing and I said yeah, yeah, hang on. Anyway, we got the cabbages back and ooh, he, I thought that he would never stop bowing. If he hadn’t, I thought the fellow, it’s a wonder they don’t curl up and roll away. So anyway, I went back to the car which was only 2 feet away and I said to Leila, “Have you

got any cigarettes?” And she said yes. We used to keep them for barter and I got the cigarettes and I gave him the cigarettes and I shook hands with him and the Japanese, the whole market had stopped by now you see. Bloody cold too, freezing, 17th of December it was, the middle of winter you see and I thought oh well, it’s

my wedding day and I’m away from my family, so I think I drawed out 4 or 500 yen which was fairly good, had this 100 yen so I went over and put it in his pocket. The man was just paralysed see. “Sayonara, sayonara to everybody, wot chi ben.” I forget what the word is for marriage “Beyoki, beyoki.” They all

waved and we went up and then we missed the train you see. The driver said, “What am I going to do?” I said, “In Japan there’s plenty of other trains, mate.” So, I went up to the station master and in my most fluent Japanese, I said, “Next train?” And he said, “Oh about 10 minute, but,” he said “sin du, sin du,” and I knew what he meant, 3rd class. The other one was 1st class but this one was 3rd class and it stopped at every

bloody station up the hill and it was a 1 in 14 ratchet railway. Of course, I love trains you see and Leila said to me, oh very nervous girl and she said, “Oh, what are we going to do for food?” And I said, “I don’t know but never fear.” So she went back on the train and we were allowed to sit in the conductor’s compartment. Oh they were going to have

two nice Australians who had been just married and I went and I got a bag of peanuts and two bananas and they were for Leila’s wedding day lunch. See now, Leila sat on the seat in the conductor’s compartment and it was heated by steam from the engine, no I think it had a second thing on for heating with steam going through. I tell you, she got a burnt

bum, she had to stand up, it was so hot and I couldn’t sit down. “Ooh,” she said, “that was the day I had the burnt bum,” or something and so she had a banana and peanuts for lunch. Now what girl could wish for more on her wedding day, a banana and peanuts see. Now, I’m going to tell you something that brings a tear to my eye.

Everyday from 17th December, even with Leila not here now, I have two bananas and a bag of peanuts. I reckon that’s a good story. We went way up to the Cares Harbour, snow was 4 feet deep beautiful place, beautiful place and then somebody gave us a present. We had to carry the thing back and an American, very kindly said

“Are you stranded man?” I said, “Yes, my Japanese vehicle is broken down.” “Where are you going man?” I said, “We’re going to Tokyo.” So he took us in the jeep and I had to put the, there they are, that’s that present, those tables that I pointed to you, they’d been given to us and Leila said to me, “Where’s that lovely wedding present we were given?” I said, “Go and powder your nose and

you’ll find them out there in the toilet,” you see. So, we took them down and we got to Tokyo, I forget where we stayed, forget where we stayed mind you, the Occupation was coming to an end. Things were a little bit easier, so we came back to Kure and we were allocated a house, W13 by number and we set up. That’s how I met Leila. Two

bananas and a bag of peanuts. Have a good laugh?

Oh, when she married me she hung on to me see she’d been pretty poorly treated I think after her mother died. When she died Leila was 5, Leila was left alone with her sister but

I can only say thank you to her. Well, that was a little bit of a commercial but it was how I met Leila.

Oh, wait a minute. I said that I’m getting a little bit out of tune. There was an engagement. Now, I never asked her to marry me. When I came back to Australia, I saw my mother. She said,

“I believe you’ve got a girlfriend?” I said, “Yes.” She said, “What is she? Japanese?” I said, “No, she’s a black American.” I thought I was going to start a fight. Oh, by this time I was on top, I was on top, you see and I bought Leila a very, very lovely ring and it cost 65 Australian pounds

and I got it on the cheap, so I did well and I put it in a chocolate box about that size. Now, I’m not signalling a try, I want to show you the size of the box and, I wrapped it well. Two lots of wrappings you see. Wrap it first, and then rewrap it so if the first cover gets knocked off, it’s got a second one you see so I posted

the box. My mother said you’re game. I said no mother, I said it’s going by the army mail. So, I just simply said “I hope this fits the third finger of your left hand,” you see, that’s right?

Well, I go the other way. I go the other way. I’m right handed.

Anyway, she didn’t answer my

letter. Then she wrote to me in Australia when I was coming back from New Zealand, on a ship of course Monway, and she never mentioned it. She just said, oh well, we did this and we’ve done that, Ruth does this and Joan does that and Captain Basher’s asked after you, and so forth and I wrote to her. Now it only took about 3 days for a letter ‘cause there was no phone, see

and I said well, I sent you a parcel, did you receive it? And she wrote back and said no parcel, no nothing. So, I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know whether to let her go and just simply say the parcel had a box of toffee in it or something. No, I thought, no. So, she sent me a cable.

Now, the cables in those days. Do you understand the cable?

Telegram, see and they had numbers and it was number 1 was ‘How are you?’ And number 2 was ‘Get lost’ and number 3 was ‘Go away’. 29 I always know was love. Everybody used to put 29 down, see love to their friends and I received a letter from

Leila, no cable and it said something about ‘parcel not received, what were contents?’ And then it said ‘have you sent the money?’ And I thought bugger this, what’s this? So I couldn’t work out, and I said to my mother… “Oh, she’s probably put that in as sort of a cover up.” So, anyway,

the Japanese had been a bit careless with this, with numbers, they got them mixed up you see so, I had no choice but to send the letter, diamond ring, and I knew that the moment that hit you, my friend in Japan, every bugger would know from Hokkaido to Kagasheba and that’s as far north and as far south as you can get so,

what had happened was I’d sent the letter and sent it to Japan and the parcel arrived at Iwakuni where the mail plane landed and there was a very careless and sadly, dishonest sergeant who handled the mail, got careless and when he sorted the mail and he got the parcels he threw them into a bag, put it over his shoulder,

the other bag, and went out and went 40 miles with the mail. Now, a registered letter or parcel, you must say “Joan Smith” Joan Smith one, “John Bloggs” parcel two, you see you must put it in the mail bag so he distributes all the mail in Kure where he had gone from Iwakuni and nothing for Leila.

What happened was, he drew the parcels out of the bag and he’d say “Heather Jones” see and then he threw the bags away on the side and that evening, a Japanese employee who had been cleaning up, sweeping up, said please could he have a bag to put the rubbish in? You wouldn’t believe it. They gave him the mail bag. So, they threw everything in the mail bag and they took it 3 miles away

to the incinerator. They tipped it out, 2 or 3 bags I suppose and one of the Japanese little workmen saw a parcel burning and he put his rake in and he pulled it out. When he’d shaken it away, there was the diamond ring. And he had a fortune in his hand as far as Japanese money was concerned. He’d had the container. So, he called his boss. I learnt all this later.

He called his boss and they said ooh, ooh, we must give to Australia, we must give to Australian warrant officer. So Charlie Ferris was the warrant officer and they gave him the ring and said they’d found it in the big hot rubbish, so every girl in the place tried the ring on except Leila, she didn’t have time for that sort of nonsense. Get on with her work, she was like that. Of course, I said

that I’d sent the diamond ring, people started to… So, I eventually went back and can you believe it? I flew in an airplane. God, I hate airplanes anyway, I went back to Japan and this retched thing with four engines, I don’t know how it keeps up, I don’t care because I don’t travel in them anyway, I went to the military police and they said, “Can you

identify the ring?” And I said, “Well, it’s got 2 horseshoes.” And the fellow said, “She’s right.” He said, “Why did you send a thing that size?” I said, “It was that size, you wouldn’t have known a ring was in it.” See, I wasn’t going to send an obvious ring, I disguised it. So I said, “Well, that’s what I sent you.” “Mmm” she said, “really?” And I said, “Yes.” So, she said, “Well what am I going to do with it?” “Well,” I said, “it looks like the

4th finger left hand job.” She said, “Oh leave it with me.” Five days later she put it on. Got on the bus and everybody was looking. Now, can you believe it that I went back to the furnace with an interpreter so that they could get the message clearly and this fellow said, “Well, it wasn’t mine and I don’t want you to think that we are

dishonest people.” And I gave him enough cigarettes to set up a shop and I gave him chocolate and gave him money and I reckon I set him up for 6 months but that’s how I met, that’s how I got engaged to Leila. Can you believe that? Anyway, wonderful isn’t it.

Ring in the fire. Oh yes, I’ve still got a very faded copy of the routine orders, the very issue Japan had

sent. “A diamond ring has been found. On a complete description, the owner may claim it.” Nobody claimed it, oh, they wouldn’t have been game, see and there you are.

Yes, it took 5 days. She thought about it. Yeah. I don’t blame her. The catch of the year, she couldn’t let it go there could she?

No, no. I’m glad you agree with that.

Oh yes, that was when I had the bananas.

A week.

No, no. Came back to, no that was after everything. No, came back to Kure and there was a change and went back to Australia and went to Darwin, Darwin, I went to Melbourne and then we

came here. Mm. Built this house, mm.

Yeah, it’s getting out of hand.

After Korea.

You’ve got to go back to Korea.

No, before. I met her before I went to Korea.

No, it was only a couple of months, say 4 or 5 months you see.

I realise we’re not working to script.

Oh, pretty soon after it broke out, pretty soon. I said why me? The fellow said, you’re going and I said alright. Now they called for volunteers

but I was regular and I could be sent anywhere and they said, “Are you volunteering Neville?” And I said, “Certainly not, why should I?” I said, “It’s ridiculous.” “Oh, bloody Neville won’t volunteer, won’t volunteer.” Guess who they sent? I think I played my cards well there. Got over there with a group of fellows, we were first to land. We were in a unit known

as AUSTFIKNA [Australian Forces in Korea Nameless Area]. I think there were 2 or 3 sergeants and I, I was taken with 13 or 12 men through the containment streets to Pusan. In the meantime, the Japanese

and Chinese had hurled us back and the Americans were being killed left, right and sideways and Australians weren’t there and we got around into Pusan and a fellow said do you want a drink of beer? And I said yes, because I’m not going to drink the water. So I had a light beer and we disposed of the cans and, then we had to separate. Now the Japanese took us over.

It’s unreal isn’t it? The Japanese took us across in this long, sleek boat. “Lazy Shirley” we used to call it and then I went to my, where my unit was to be and we got picks and shovels and started digging trenches and put up tents and they said a British Unit will be coming in here shortly so you’ll have to move fast.

So, we had to move fast and god, wasn’t it getting cold too. So, we set up a camp and I was the Supply man by then, I was out of Transport, I was in Supply and an American said to me come with me so, he introduced me to a fellow who spoke English and he was El Salvador this man, so we spoke and

I think there were 17 nations that went into Korea and he said you want food? I said my word we do, so he said well don’t worry, and he gave me food and sauerkraut and all this sort of thing and I thought oh god, so anyway, nothing fresh. It was hard rations and we were on this hillside in Pusan and I had a shed given to me

and a very unreliable young soldier, can’t I get somebody else I said. The fellow said, “No, Neville you can’t.” So anyway, we got the shed sorted out with our food and then they got some fresh food one day and we had the fresh food and then the English came in and the Americans waited all day

for them to be unloaded and they were so long coming, the Americans went back to camp and another lot came down with their trucks, huge things they were in those days or so we thought. I mean you didn’t sit down and ring the bell and say, go and sit on your bag. I didn’t have to do anything, I knew that. I could take the tram, I got to know the way see. And we got into Korea and we fed the British

and we fed the marines, British and American marines had linked together. The mud and the slush and the cold was beyond belief. You couldn’t move anywhere without a loaded rifle. You carried it all day, loaded. If you went up town for some reason you got permission to go to town, you took a loaded rifle and if you went up in the jeep, one had to stay in the jeep with his rifle. “Ooh, ooh” it

was really on. And I was there for a while and then a fellow said to me, “Neville, we’ve got to, we’ve got troops up North,” the Australians had arrived by then and in the meantime I’d been evacuated back to Japan with what they call “trench mouth” and I had very bad toothache. “Ooh,” they said, “get it

out, get him to hospital.” I didn’t know the hospital was in Japan and I went on the American Hospital train and I had the, I got moved onto an aeroplane. I said no, no aeroplanes for me, and the fellow said you’ve got no choice. So we flew back to Pugawoka and then we got on a train and we went through Kure and Hiroshima, I hid.

I hid in the train so they wouldn’t see me. Wouldn’t go out. Heard someone say, “Neville Govett’s back in Japan.” Went up to Kyoto and I went through the hospital but in the meantime, the mouth started to improve and they looked after me very well, but in the meantime I lost everything, my hat, my uniform. The only thing I had was my boots and I dressed up as a Yank. So, in the meantime, they sent me to another hospital

and they, the American boys thought oh this great Australian, and they got me into a pair of pyjamas and I said, “Why is your pyjamas brown and white and mine are red and white?” And they said, “Oh, spare pants,” see and I put on this dressing gown, USMD [United States Medical Depot], so anyway I was put on a bus and sent into Kyoto.

Now I knew Kyoto fairly well, knew it better than any of the boys that were there and

Well now, I had asked the why was the pyjamas different, the USMD, and they said to me oh spare pair, you see. Well, when this beautiful van, ah coach, the American’s look after their troops they really do. When we went around I discovered I was the only one on the coach.

The Japanese boy’s called out to me, he was the driver, “Sergeant,” oh no, “soldier, soldier. Fin, fin, finish cylinder, cylinder,” meaning end. And I thought oh God, this is bad, so I got off the bus. Now, here I am in Japan’s second city, unbombed during the war, Kyoto former capital in this pair of pyjamas

and this dressing gown and people are looking at me, giving me the big look you see, and the American women that were there were amazed and I spoke to a couple of them and they said, “Where are you from?” And I said, “Down under, an Australian.” And they were laughing and anyway, I thought I’ll, I’ll beat this, so I

knew that there’d be plenty of American military policemen about and they came along in a jeep about 2 minutes later. I’m out, stop. Soldier, “Where are you man?” You see, your typical Yank and I said “Look, don’t do your block. I’m an Australian,” and he looked me up and down and he said, “What are you doin’ out here?” And I said, “I was on a bus with American soldiers…” And told him the whole story. I said, “Can I

go to your headquarters?” “You better get in man.” So I got in and they were very friendly but I tell you what, their eyes were boggling. There was this bloke walking down the main street of Kyoto in his pyjama outfit so when I got in to the American military police headquarters which was a pretty rundown joint, a fellow said, “What the hell’s this?” And I said,

“Listen, don’t panic,” and I told him. “You know,” he said “what you’re wearing?” And I said, “No.” He said, “That’s a woman’s outfit. They’ve decked you out with a woman’s outfit.” And here I was in this USMD and the fold around me, the right way around and the buggers had me in this pair of pyjamas. No wonder the American girls were laughing. They couldn’t work it out, see. So, he said,

well I said “Look, surely you have a, you can get through on the American switchboard and look after me.” So, they, they did and he said, “You’re a lucky man.” And he said, “We’ll send you back to the hospital in the jeep.” Of course I missed my treatment you see and the, I was very lucky that I didn’t meet a bombastic sergeant or something. You know, that bang you over the

head with a bat and tell ya. Anyway, they got me back to the hospital and everybody was laughing at me and I said, “Well, I’ve got to stay in this outfit because you buggers have pinched my clothes,” you see. So I saw captain I think and he was pretty irate and he said, he had heard the story and he was very sorry, but I had been on the wrong bus but I said, “I got on the bus I was told, sir.” He said, “Yes, I know,” he said, “I’m afraid

these GI’s[Government Issue],” he said, “are pretty clever,” and he said, “Just wait.” And one fellow came to me and he said, “Say Zeezo, Zeezo man, Zeezo.” And I said, “What does that mean?” He says, “You’ll get a free trip to America.” I said, “What?” and I said to the officer, “Can I go zeezo?” He said, “I thought you were going back to Korea?” I said, “Oh Zeezo’d be better wouldn’t it, sir?” “I’m a wake up, you’ll have to go

back to Korea son.” I might have got a free trip to America you see. It’s true. So, anyway, they put me on a, they gave me equipment. Wanted to give me a rifle and I said no, no I don’t want any rifle. So anyway I was there dressed as a Yank. G.I. Govett you see, and they took me down to the station with quite a lot of others and of course they didn’t recognise an Australian or anything,

they just told you to get on the train. And it was a sitting car and I was with a load of black boys, see and I went on the train. Then, they said you can have sleeper no 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and I got in the sleeping car and these black boys were very fascinated to meet a white man on the train see, an Australian, and one fellow said, “You wear nice shoes there man,” and I said,

“Yes, and keep your eye off as I like keeping them.” Otherwise I’d have nothing to walk in see. So, anyway, we got back to, we went through Kure again but I was in bed by then and down under the Kanmon Tunnel and under the next island, and we got taken back to Sasebo and I stayed there. The fellow said, “Are you British?” I said, “Well, I’m from Australia,” “Ooh,” he said, “I’ll send you back separately.

How’d you come to be here?” I said, “Oh, don’t ask. Just let me… I just got here.” So, they gave me an authority of some description. I think that I could’ve deserted and nobody would’ve known where I was see, and I think, in respect to Pusan, but they warned us that they were full of submarines lurking around so when I went on the Japanese ship, it did have an American flag. I wouldn’t

go down below. I stood up and got 3 life belts and slept on the deck. Oh I didn’t want to go down in the bloody sea. Of course, when I got off in Pusan, a fellow said, “Where are you from?” I said, “Australia.” He goes, “Stand over there,” so anyway, that was alright. They gave me a good feed and then the American’s said, “Well, you can’t go away with my boys.”

And I said, “Well, what are you worried about?” He said, “Well I got to get you back I suppose, to British headquarters.” I said, “Don’t worry, I’ll take the tram.” I knew the way honestly. However, at that moment, a jeep was available so I got on the jeep and I went back and when I got back to my own Headquarters, a fellow said, “Where in the name of heaven have you been, Neville?” I said, “Back to Japan.” “What?” I said, “Back to Japan.” So, they,

they sorted out my papers and I carried on my duties of supply. I said to this unreliable man in the store, “Did you give away any food?” He said, “Yes.” And I said, “Oh, that’s alright, what d’you give away?” And he told me and I said, “Oh, well that’s alright.” So anyway, we had to get back to paper work again. Oh very unreliable little fellow so anyway, from there on we

got back into routine, but in the meantime, oh boy were those Chinese pushing us back see and a senior officer came to me and he said, “Neville, I think we’re going to be pushed into the sea,” he said, “with these Chinese, what are your preparations?” I said, “What do you want me to do?” “Well,” he said, “isn’t that fuel you’ve got there.” I said, “Yes.” “Well,” he said, “if you’ve got an axe, break the,

hit the things with an axe and get the troops to help you and flood the place with petrol and then go for your life,” he said, “down to the wharf, we’ll see what we can do and drop a match and burn off all the fuel,” you see. ‘Scorched earth’ they call it so, I said, “Well, I hope it doesn’t arise.” Well, it didn’t arise fortunately but my god, you slept with that rifle beside you. Anyway, one, a couple of days later, I put a call to

Headquarters, which of course was only a shed or a tent or anything and we did have a Union Jack flying I think somewhere, and one of ‘em said to me, “Neville, go, I want you to go up to another camp, the American,” he said, “you won’t miss it, and the stars and stripes will be flying,” he said, “They’ve got a field gun.” I said “Yes.” He said, “And it’s damaged and

we’ve got to get it back to Japan for repair.” It takes half a dozen men in this blitz wearing thing and, “Go back. Get the gun back. Go straight back to the war.” I said, “Righto.” So I got 6 men and they all stood up at the back and yelled at the girls and went on like a lot of lunatics. However, I found the camp no trouble and I went back,

in, went in and I reported to headquarters, the Americans and a fellow said, “Ooh, you’re Australian?” I said, “Yes, I am.” See, I was still in my American outfit and he said, “Well, there’s the gun, take it.” I said, “Do I have to sign?” “Take the bloody thing,” he said, and go, ooh, they way he went on you know so, it was a don’t know what it was a, 175

mil I think they call them, great big trails out the back, if you understand me and a long snout. I think they were a very good gun of the day, you see. So, we backed our truck around and closed the trails. When we hooked it on the back, it didn’t hook on very well so we couldn’t go to the local hardware store and get some wire so we cut down a fence you see,

and the boys round the wire around and she held on very nicely. So, I said, “Righto, on the truck.” So, the boys got on the truck and I got on the passenger side, the driver’s there. “So what do we do now?” I said, “Go back to camp, no,” I said, “I’ll tell you where to go, follow the tram line,” I said, “and we’ll get back to the wharf.” “O,” he said, “righto.” Now it’s keep to the

right in Korea, keep to the left in Japan. So, the first thing the poor bloody driver did was to go to the left and we scared hell out of a lot of the people you see, so ah we got over to the right. Now they have 4 wheel small trams, they haven’t got any now. I’ve been back since and that’s a mistake, never do away with the trams, and away we go. We’re on the,

yeah we’re on the tram and they go back on the right and all of a sudden, there’s screams banging on the roof, “Neville, Sergeant, stop, stop, the gun’s broken loose!” Now you imagine tons of bloody steel loose amongst civilians and it’s moving. What happened was one of the

trails had broken loose and it was going out like this and it was just clean-sweep of steel going along there and we stopped and we hit a tram. You should have seen the dint in it and there were Koreans everywhere. They were on the roof, on the side but god help me, they weren’t on the front and they were shaking like this.

I was like this too. A fellow said, “What are we going to do Neville?” I said, “Get the gun back and see what you can do.” So I went down to the tram and ascertained that nobody had been hurt. Now, imagine being hit by the steel. I mean, the power of the gun when they fired it, got there with recoil, but I’m not Artillery, I wouldn’t know about it. So, we got the thing back and then I got them off the tram somehow.

Japanese language was useful and I do remember when I was a little boy, I’d seen my father, my father was with me and I saw a cable tram go off the line and a policeman got many men, they just put their hands underneath the ridge and they go oop, back, 1, 2, 3 back see and the tram went on the line and although the tram was heavy, a lot of men could lift the lot and

she was only that far off the line you see, or more, you could go 2 inches or so. So I got them and showed them what I wanted and as quick as lightning they understood and I said, “Ichi, nee, sum,” meaning 1, 2, 3 you see, and they put the tram back on the line so a fellow said, “What are you going to do, Neville, are you going to take..” and I said, “Just get into the truck and drive away will you.” So, we drove away oh yeah, I tell you, we’d bashed the

tram up, we drove away, everybody went about their business and we went down to the wharf. It held on and we got rid of the thing and we got it on to a landing craft and I said to the fellows, “Not a word about this when you get back,” I said, “I’ll finish in jail and if we’d killed anybody, they’d probably hang me,” oh well after all, you killed civilians. So, none of those boys never said a word

and when we got back an officer called me, “How’d ya go Neville?” I said, “The gun’s on its way to Japan, sir, thank you very much.” Always remembered that, I recalled that in my diary. Imagine, you’re going along the main street and you’ve got this great bloody big trailer out the side. I tell you what you wouldn’t… if it had hit any person, it would have killed ‘em. Oh yes, they had no hope I suppose and they’d have been hanging on the front of the tram. Oh God.

Only wish I had a photo but there was no time for photos. Shove off was all we could do and so much for that. Well,

What is it?

Oh yes, I did, yes. Anyway, we’re sent to Tageau, TAGE

AU, I think it is, and I went with the British and they said don’t leave your truck, sit in the vehicle all the time you see, the snipers are everywhere and we got up about 80 miles and we sort of got our, but we didn’t get out of the truck but kept our rifles because you never knew whether they’d come down from the hills you see. And the Americans and the

British and the French and the others after all were taking a terrible hammering and we were trying to get through to Tageau and anyway, I was there for 3 days. “Don’t leave the camp at night Neville, don’t go out. There are three murders a night, don’t go out,” and I said, “Alright, what’ll I do, sir?” They said, “Well, you can hang around the depot and we’ll wait till we can get you back.” Anyway, the signal came that

we were to move and some boys went this way and some went, well they were British most of them and I had a fellow with me, he was a pretty useless. I’m not so brilliant myself but this fellow was, oh! And he said couldn’t he go back by air. Oh yes, go over to the airport you’ll be alright. It took him 2½ days without food, I might add, to get 70 miles.

Bright eyes went with the railway and I said, “Moving to Pusan.” And an American boy said, “Man, you’re lucky. There’s a train coming in in 10 minutes.” I said, “What sort of train?” And he said, “A train with an engine in front and carriages behind it,” see. Now I had a big bag of food called the “10 in 1” pack. One man for 10 days, 10 men for 1 day see, and they didn’t

have Farmland Food Hall or Woolworths this, it was just a number and we had one tin and it was pure lemon juice, you can just imagine. So however I said, “Where will we go?” “Well,” he said, “the station is still intact it wasn’t bombed. It will come in on that truck and,” he said, “I’m waiting for them to change my wireless.” They could only work it by,

what do you call it? Walkie talkie in those days. No mobile phones. No signals and when the train came in, it had a 4½ feet gauge I might add, same as America. And when the train came in, the driver pulled up, three of ‘em up front pulled up, 3 of them on the train driving, it had 45 empty fuel tanks and one passenger

car at the back. And I said, “What’s this?” And the fellow said, “The Americans and the British are stranded in their tanks up North.” Now if you’ve got no fuel in your own tank, you’re a sitting duck you see. “We’ve got to get that train to Pusan, it’s got to be reloaded, and within 5 minutes it’s got to be on its way back,” see. So, I got into the air conditioned trailer car at the

back. It was air conditioned but I’ll alert you to the fact it had no windows and the roof was holed out with bullets, air conditioned you see and wooden seats. Well, it didn’t need a seat. You stood all the way on the floor whichever was. Now, there were a couple of Americans, a couple of Koreans and most of the others were British and there were about 10 of us. They said, “Have you got any food?” I said, “Yes.”

They hadn’t eaten for 2 days and they were starving. So, the baillus came out and they ripped open the carton, until we got the lemon, what do you call it? That juice anyway and baked beans, oh god they were tipping them out into anything and biscuits, chocolate anything. So, they cleaned the bag up. I hardly got a feed but never mind.

So, anyway we are pushing on and the fellows said, “We’ve got to have food.” So we stopped at some place and the kiddies came out and talked to us so we were swapping lemonade, they had some lemonade and all this sort of thing on the ship, on the train and money, anything, cigarettes and they gave us eggs and so forth. So, that was alright. Then,

I said, “Well can’t we wait till we have the food.” And they said, “Oh, I suppose so.” So the train suddenly stopped and we were in the back and we were in the tunnel and so was the engine, it must have been a hell of a long tunnel and the American said to me, “I think we’re trapped.” I said, “I think so too.” Mind you, it was pitch dark, all you had was cigarette lighters see. Of course, I never had one.

So anyway, one man had a torch and an American said to me, “I don’t like this, I don’t want to be caught by guerrillas and I don’t want to be suffocated. What do you reckon we ought to do?” “Well,” I said, “you have a pistol?” He said, “Yes, obviously.” And I said, “Plenty of ammo?” And he said, “Yes.” “Well,” I said, “I’ve got 3 bandoliers and 150 rounds in my rifle, let’s climb down the side of the train

and walk with our backs to the wall and if there is a shoot out at the other end, we’ll bring down some, but,” I said, “we’ve got to count on losing our own lives.” He said, “Well, ok.” So, the others wanted to know what we were doing and I said, “You can come if you want to. We’re going to make a go for it,” and just as we were about to leave the train, the Yank pulled me back. The train moved and ‘choo

choo choo choo’ and about 2 minutes later, we were out of the tunnel. Now you were holding hankies over your mouth and everything else because the smoke was killing you. See, the idea is they kept the train in the tunnel and the smoke wouldn’t get out, the guerrillas you see. So anyway, when we got out and eventually stopped, we caught up with the driver and he said that no, there had been trouble

and they were sorry that they were in the tunnel and I said a bit of a lucky break, you see. So anyway, we decided that we had all priority and they were pushing their way down and it was getting dark so I said, “Well, we’ll have to start a fire.” A fellow said, “What are we going to do?” “Well,” I said, “has anybody got any matches?” Yes, they had matches so we went along with our rifles and bayon.., ah rifles

and started to smash up the seats see and we were bashing up the seats and we got timber, pinish timber. For the first account it wasn’t my seat, I said “yours will go eventually.” So anyway, fortunately the language was English except the Koreans but they understood Japanese and we had enough Japanese to get through to them. We built this fire

on the train floor and she’s choofing along and oh god, look at that? It was really cold you see. We got eggs and got them on, oh some platter or something or other, tried to cook the eggs. Of course, they’re all mad you know, the Americans and the Australians, we’re trivial, and all of a sudden the bloody fire dropped out, we burnt the floor out see. Oh god,

the fellows said, “What do we do now, Neville?” I said, “Well, what do you think we do. We just say good bye to the fire.” I said, “I’m not eating raw eggs,” although it wouldn’t have been too bad. So, we lost all our food and here was this fire burning on the line about half a mile back and we were going forward and all we were doing was looking down at track. Oh god, I’ll never forget it, never had any food see.

It all went out with the fire, yeah, and we were right there.

You know, you’re a mad madman aren’t you? So anyway, they had this priority and they got into Pusan which is the last port, the rest of it is sea and when the driver was pulling into the yards he could see that there were people lying all over the line everywhere. So he pulled up and they got rid of them and they pulled in and I said, “Well, right.” So I

took my bag and rifle, I had my rifle and it was pitch dark. I said cheerio to the American boy he was very nice and the others all went their way and the fellows said, “What are you going to do?” “Well,” I said, “if I can get a field phone I’ll probably be able to get my headquarters.” So it was cold and dark and the train was shunted off and the Americans were pumping gasoline into the

tanks as fast as they could because they had to get them back, see and it’s a days journey back, it wasn’t going back in 20 minutes see, so I found an American and I said is that a field phone. “Yeah man,” he said, “what’s the matter?” I said, “Just a moment, can I use it?” He said, “Where do you want?” I said, “British Headquarters.” So, we wound the phone and we managed to get on

to my headquarters. A fellow said, yes. I said, “Look, I must have a jeep, a jeep at Pusan yards.” The fellow says oh righto, so about 3 hours later a jeep turns up and a fellow says, “Did you ring about a jeep?” I said yes, and he was an Australian see. “Where have you been?” and I said, “Oh

somewhere.” So we got in the jeep and we drove about 10 miles back to the camp, I don’t know what happened to the others and I got into my hut, that’s where I asked the boy if he’d given any food away and he said yes, and I just simply got some tins of food there and smashed them open and ate and ate, I was so hungry. Those were the adventures that you had there, wonderful.

Oh yes, yes

North Koreans. Yes, that’s another interesting one. Now, I was in the Seoul area smashed and battered to pieces oh, you see the Chinese have come on and the Americans have gone back and when you’re really shooted up you don’t care, so anyway how I came to be on the 38th parallel, I can never

remember, never remember this, and I was with 2 Australians, young boys, and I said, “Now keep your rifles cocked and put your bayonets on.” I was just more experienced you see. I said, “Have you got food?” And they said yes. Well I said stick together. Now, I repeat, I don’t know why I was there or why I was going around

but all of a sudden, we’re out in a bit of a bush area, I heard a noise and three people were calling and I had a frown and there were three boys, see like this, like hands up, and I thought, oh yeah. So I went forward and Japan has occupied Korea for many years and Japanese was almost their language you see. So, I said to

them, “Oh, kida joysin.” “Ay, ay,” meaning North Korea and I said, “Oh.” So a fellow said to me, one of the boys, “What are we going to do?” I said, “Do as you’re told and that’s all you’ve got to do.” Now I said, ok. So I went forward and searched them and they had no weapons or knives, nothing and they indicated that they were desperate for food so I,

got what I could and kept myself a big bar of chocolate, oh pretty big, I don’t know, it was army and I said to the boys, “Have you got any food?” And they said they had bully beef or something so we, they sat down, the prisoners sat down and I got this food, and of course you had the thing to open it and oh God, they were like savages, the way they went for it. See, they were starving,

poor devils and I asked them, “Doka, doka?” where are you going, you see. And they said, “Minomi, minomi,” and I said, “Oh yes,” that means South you see, so I said, “Alright.” So next thing, it wouldn’t have been more than a few minutes, there was a hell of a noise up the road and a bloody Yank coming down, black boy, in a truck of course, about 500

miles an hour round the, and I waved and waved and waved, waved. I had an Australian hat on and he stopped. He said, “What’s the matter, man?” I said, “Listen, where are you going?” “Where are you from?” I said, “Well, I’m an Australian, these are Australian and they are prisoners, my prisoners.” “Mmm.” He said, “North boys?” I said, “Yes, they’re kept all over the

area, the parallel,” see no marking or anything, you just got in and they weren’t wanting to go back. So anyway, I said, “If you’re going into Seoul will you take them?” Now he had an empty seat alongside him but nobody was allowed in there, he wouldn’t allow any courier or anything so I said, “Come on this is a war,” and he said, “Alright, alright.” He was very nice, very nice. And we went

around to the back of the truck and when he opened up the back of a GMC [General Motors Corporation], do you know what a GMC is? Oh, very big American trucks, they’re very, they had a big one during the war, left, ah right hand drive of course. I called these Korean boys and they came and when we opened up the back there were women and children and a couple of men in the back sitting on stores and I said, “Where are these from?” He said, “I picked them up up the road.”

He said, “They’ve got to go to Seoul. All I’m doing is taking them to Seoul and then they get out,” and he said, “that’s it.” So, we helped the prisoners up on to the trellis, they couldn’t climb up, we got them up and they were indicating how grateful they were and of course, I had cigarettes which I’d never use. So I gave them the cigarettes, “Oh gosh cigarettes.” Oh, it was wonderful and the other boys and I gave

them what food and the South Korean people that were there. Women were asking for food for their children so we gave them whatever biscuits we had. See you always tried to carry food with you so, we got back from the, I said to the driver, “What are you going to do?” And he said, “The first MP I see, I will give the prisoners and I will take the others wherever.” So, they’re probably all dead

now. But that was my experience with them. Oh yes, I took them out. We did have another experience with them. They were a bit vicious right next door to the camp in which I was operating. The North Koreans were permitted to come into our camp and clean it up and we had to be very careful. We had to stand around with rifles because we thought they might escape you see.

So we got them all back and they were counted and they all went back into their camp, but it wasn’t, it was about a month later.

Yes, North Koreans.

Yeah, and they had their camp next to ours and we didn’t like it, they were too close. I know when I went to bed at night, I had my sleeping bag and in it I had my loaded rifle, and I used to tie the rifle

with a heavy string around the butt and around my wrists, because they could probably slit the bag without you knowing it and take the rifle and then slit your throat I suppose, but they were, they caused a riot. They had a riot but I wasn’t there. I was moved by then and that was my experience of them. Of course, in the meantime, Australian boys were fighting at Long Hill or something and Hill 245 and

the Hook, and all that sort of thing. Well those are my adventures but my job and I did it, was to Supply and I always had to go to the Americans and pick up the Supplies and then we got Australian food sent in and we had to get that. Oh yeah, we had to lift everything, not like today with

Well, I was working mainly for the Australians and the British, and there’d be British boys come in but we were the Headquarters you see, and the British boys came in, Z troops they were known as. All whingeing and I learnt one thing. Always go to sleep with your jack-knife around your neck because one night, see smoking again,

it’s the old trouble. There was a British group and they were issued with American sleeping bags see, zip them up, a very big zip. Now a zipper should never be zipped it should be pulled quietly. I told my wife that when I bought her a, or Leila as I will call her please, when she had a new bag with me, I said, “Look,

you won’t have that bag very long.” “What do you mean?” I said, “Look Leila, you close a bag like that, not zip.” I said, “If it breaks off the zip, you’ve done your bag.” And I said, “We paid a lot of money for that.” But she was good, she said, “Oh,” and she’d do that. The same as if I zipped her up. I always usually do it slowly. ‘Nice and slowly’ I was taught that as a child and it stuck with me you see, so anyway, this soldier was there and he,

he was smoking or his mates were smoking. All of a sudden, the tent caught fire and nobody helped anybody and that man burnt to death because he was zipped into his bag and the zipper faltered, probably from a fast pull and he couldn’t get it open and he couldn’t walk and he couldn’t get his hands down. And when I learned about that

I got my jack-knife which I still have, put it around my neck and I used to put it in my pocket and I thought, well, at least I can grab it and rip it. I was telling Leila about it and she said, “You learn a lot, don’t you.” I said, “Yes.” I used to take it with me on the cruises, if were we going for a cruise, take your jack-knife. Amazing isn’t it?

Amazing. Oh, it was dreadful to see things happen like that

but, I, well of course, I didn’t have the problem you see, but I do know that I kept that rifle and then I realised that I had to take the round out of the spout, as we say, because otherwise you’d blow your bloody foot off, you see. Well that’s a lot of use isn’t it. ‘Cause I tell you now, I could go on for hours and I was just an ordinary soldier, nothing exciting. Oh

dear. I told you, you wouldn’t think there was a war on, the way I was talking, but oh, there was a war on alright. They argued with the young American. Ooh, he was a troublesome fellow. We were all on a train.

Oh yes, he was a no. 1 idiot, there’s plenty of them around you know in all armies anyway, we’re on our way to, well, I don’t know where we were going but we were at a place called Tejon and it was a fairly central point, and the train

stopped. Now they were working entirely by walkie talkie as I mentioned earlier, and they’d say well train no. 5 proceed mile stop and all this sort of thing. The Americans had cut the double line, one side, one side to stop the enemy from getting down. Then they revered the line by putting a cross loop so you went like this, up,

that’s all. Anyway, we’re stopped for a while and I was talking to an American policeman and so forth, all part of the job carrying stores and things, and there was a carriage on with a few civilians and one of them was an English speaking German of the Seventh Day Adventist church and I said, “What are you doing here?”

“Oh,” he said, “I was posted here by my church,” and he said, “I’m sort of glad to be getting out of the front.” I said, “Where have you been?” He said, “Well, I was in Seoul,” and I said, “Oh, were you?” So, very nice but as I say, he did speak English. You wouldn’t believe it, he said to me, “I got this as a souvenir.” I said,

he said, “Is it Australian?” I said, “My God.” He had a bloody grenade, a grenade and he was carrying it in his bag. I said, “Look, I don’t know whether it’s loaded or not but,” I said, “Get rid of it.” “Now,” I said, “hang on, we’re moving shortly and we’re going over the river.” And I said, “I

can assure you that that’s where I’m going to throw it,” see. I couldn’t believe it, anyway he went through with me and I, I wasn’t game to pull out the pin. I didn’t know if it was loaded or not so I just said, “Goodbye,” and I saw it sink. So, it might be still there or it might have blown up. And we went on however, at the same point there were three inch mortars,

now about that size, do you know what a mortar is? Well, a mortar is a weapon, a missile that you put down a sub, down into a tube and you stand back and it fires up into the air. Dreadful things to be caught under, mortar fire and they were Russian made and the North Koreans had brought them down in piles and this

huge pile was alongside the train line. Now, we were being fired at by guerrillas see, and an American asked me if he could have a shot with my rifle and I said, “Well, I don’t believe in wasting ammunition.” “Oh,” he said, “let’s have a go.” He was an officer, very nice and he said, “What a beautiful rifle.” He really loved this British rifle so he fired two shots

and he fired a tin out of the area, ooh hit it easily and I could have hit it too because I was used to the rifle, however I said, “No, no.” And then we got a few shots fired back at us you see. But then they had this pile, as I said, this pile of mortars and this stupid young American boy, oh they was the greatest, he was going to do this and I said, “Look, don’t be silly.” “What’s it to you?” I said,

“Don’t be silly,” and I said, “you are not going to touch that pile of things,” and he said, “Why not?” “Doesn’t it occur to you that they’re booby trapped?” And I had to call my American police officer, well he was an MP, I don’t know what he was doing on the train of course it doesn’t matter, anybody was on the train. No “Tickets please,” or “where are you going, first or second

class?” And I said, “Would you take this American soldier away from that pile of grenades.” I said, “They’re probably booby-traps.” And I said, “It will be you, me and the train and everybody else,” and boy he really, he really pushed this kid around and put him back on the train, but I’d then thrown the thing away. And oh yes, we went a bit further up the

line. I don’t know which way we were going and everybody had their place to go to but we got into Daejeon and I’ve got a picture of me in Daejeon somewhere, it’s in the official program anyway, and there were women and children lying down and don’t drink the water, don’t touch this, don’t touch that. Now, it was appalling,

absolutely appalling, every square yard there was human excretion and you were just going around, feet like that, striding over to get to, no good getting to a tap because there was no water and if there were, you wouldn’t drink it. And we were asking the Americans what they have to drink and I think they had that retched Coca-Cola, I think it was better to drink the water than drink Coca-Cola anyway.

We were swapping tea and so forth and the train moved on somewhere, I forget which way we were going and why I was there but that’s all part of the game, all part of the story, but I assure you that there was plenty of fighting and you’d duck for cover. The Korean War is the forgotten war and I condemn the governments for

the way they suddenly decide to send a group through to Korea and then where’d they come from. I think I was entitled to be there and go, I wanted to pay my own fare. I’ve been back on my own fare anyway in the place, but eventually I got moved out. We got

Oh, about 6 months and they went,

we had to wait for a ship. A fellow said, “Neville, you’ll have to go and just do the best you can with the troops.” Other troops were there, I wasn’t alone. I’m only telling you about me. And we were in a little hut which you called ‘nusheus’ a Japanese word, and we were there with gloves and everything, frozen. I have a movie of this somewhere. It will be on my tape, the proper

tape and we had Donald Duck fruit juice on the tin with a real picture of Donald and coloured and an American officer came in and he said, “What have you got here?” I said, “Now, don’t panic, we’re Australians trying to get back to Japan.” And he said, “Alright.” Had a talk to me and he was very clean. Now he demanded that they kept the place clean you see, and

the Americans had the Koreans working and I said, “Have you got any food, we’re desperate?” And I think he sent me somewhere, oh we got some sort of food and you might get a sweet biscuit or some, devon cream or some bloody thing, and anyway, all of a sudden there was a panic and a jeep came flying

down this wharf, stone wharf, beautifully built. As strong as anything and the driver jumped out and the jeep went over the side and into the water and this fellow ran. And it turned out that the British MP’s were chasing a deserting New Zealander, and he got this jeep and he suddenly discovered he was at the end of the wharf so all he did was jam on the brake, jump out and go, and the jeep went on into the

water. Took us 2 days to find it, oh dear.

Don’t know where he got to. Dived into a ship to carry him home I think. Oh, I never worried about him. You didn’t worry too much. Oh dear, oh dear. Wild New Zealander.

Oh, it didn’t worry me very much. I was there, I was doing the job, I was single, wasn’t attached

but no, I didn’t think going home was life and death.

Oh yes, I was there for about just on 5 years. Mm. Yeah. My mother was very pleased to see me when I got back but no sooner was I back and she started to put her thumb out. Poor mother.

Oh no, Dad was gone

and it was when he was dying, I happened to be at his bedside. I’d been given leave from the army to get from Sydney to Melbourne and of course, I was going away and I remember he said to me, “Look after your mother for me, son,” always remember that. I needed a life jacket I was in tears so much. I realised I was losing my best mate. I often think that if Dad hadn’t asked me to do that,

I might have just gone away, but I didn’t and eventually I got back to Japan and went to a school, came back with all the stories of the fire, the wedding ring and Leila, and we went back to Australia and we came up to Darwin, went up to Darwin.

I didn’t. It’s just the

words you know, just the words you know and a lot of them are. ‘Hubba hubba’ isn’t a Japanese word but it meant hurry up. You could just talk enough Japanese to get you by. I think if I went back to that country even at my age now and I stayed with a family, I would have a good knowledge of it, but you see, today’s Japanese people, they’re

sai duyong, 34, now that’s a good age, yes sai duyong you see, and they, the war means nothing to them. Well, why should it? It’s all over. It’s only the old blokes like me that are hanging around I suppose. I do at my Leila’s request, my wife, I do march on Anzac Day but I march for her, nothing else. I march with the Occupation Forces.

Oh, it didn’t interest me, I just left. I never had any ribbons or anything for 49 years. I must be unusual but that’s the way it goes. I got into my films and Education Corps and I did well, I’d done very well and Leila helped me build this home, and her illness was a shocker but

she looked after me. I hope I looked after her. I went to Darwin, then Melbourne, then here and I’ve been here ever since, 48 years. And I was discharged from the army in 1970 and I do go and watch, oh I march on Anzac Day now to suit myself but my old unit has been very good to me, and they’ve even made a film but

oh, I can look back on some wonderful days. But you don’t look back on wonderful days when you realise that 30 million people were killed in Russia and the French suffered and the British suffered and the Germans suffered too. I’m not a war nut, I’m a man. I’ve got a lot of films about the war, I like to have them to show and to talk about. This is absolutely

a magnificent opportunity for me to put on record of what I’ve seen and done, but as I say, I went where I was sent and I did as I was told. I did finish as a warrant officer but people say, “What rank were you in the army?” And I say, “Private, corporal, sergeant, Hello.” I never say, “I was a warrant officer.” I can’t see the purpose of it and I,

I repeat, I hope I did a good job and I hope I served the country well. I think I might of. The main thing is to do as you’re told and I, I got on very well with people both ourselves and our enemies and our Allies, and when I came back to Australia, I was helping train troops for Vietnam you see. That war had broken out

and I wanted to go to Vietnam but, oh, it was a different world then, and I wanted to go as an education person on one of their troop ships but wasn’t to be and here we are now. We’re fighting terrorism and it’s getting unsafe to walk down the street. Well.

Well Leila used to say that she was amazed, because when I was 54 and had one year to go, I used to say, 364 days to go, 258 days to go, 110 days to go and when I got down to the last 4 days, I said 96 hours, 72

hours, 48 hours and Leila was saying, “Oh god, I’ll never handle him,” but she said I was amazed. I got my discharge certificate and I just walked straight out, and I said to the boy named Darren O’Grady, I think his name was, “I’m leaving now, I’ll shake your hand at Western Australia, Perth, I have a letter of discharge.” I said, “Don’t call me back, just let me go,

let me walk away,” and shook hands then at the gate I said, “That’s it?” He said, “Yes,” and I turned around and I just marched straight up to the Karrakatta Station. I could have had a jeep vehicle but I didn’t and I went into the city of Perth. Leila was there and met me and she waited while I had my final papers and I took her to lunch, then we went to South

Perth by launch, there was a reason for that and came back and I took a friend to dinner and that wonderful friend was 99 last week, and I hope that I’ll be able to go next year, I hope so, and give her a party, she’s been wonderful to me. “Oh, my birthday is it?” Her husband was in the 6th Division I think, and he died 45 years ago, just after my mother,

oh no, Dad, and Leila said I never looked back, I never looked back.

Oh, a few years before I went over on a launch from Perth to South Perth, it’s a river crossing and I think it’s a catamaran now, I’m not sure, and a fellow said,

“Oh you’re Neville Govett?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Well, I just finished in the army.” And I said, “Oh yes.” He said, “I feel a little lost,” and he said, “What about you?” “Well,” I said, “no, I’m one that will be staying in. I don’t know what my future holds.” So we got to South Perth just on a launch on a trip, he was going home and I shook his hand and I said,

“I hope to be discharged in Perth and I tell you what, if I am I’m going to come on this launch if it’s still running.” And he said, “Good, that’s a promise?” I said, “Yes.” So I said to Leila what had happened and she said, “Come on, Neville on the launch.” Oh, it was a fast moving craft by then you see, that was 24 years later. Oh, it might have been more. I just did it

because I wanted to do it and my wonderful now 99 year old friend said, “I suppose when you come home today, you’ll want to have a shower and change.” I said, “A shower yes, but I’ll wear that uniform till the last, wear it to the last, and wear it do dinner at Twin Towers,” I think they called it in Perth, we lived there for a while and

Leila said, “What plans have you made?” I said, “Well, we’re going to South America and England. We’ll stay there for a while.” Well, I’d saved a few pounds in those days and we went back on the train to here, oh yes this house was built and then we took the train to Sydney, a sleeping car and

at midnight we sailed on the [SS] Achille Lauro, I think I’ve got a souvenir of it there, to Wellington and then from Wellington to Chile, from Chile around to Argentina and up to Rio. Rio across to Canary Islands, Spanish and then we called into Portugal from Spain and London, stayed there for a while but

the costs were beating us, the costs. Then we came back from London right through to Gibraltar to Malta, Malta to Sicily, Sicily to Napoli then Geneva back through the Mediterranean. Right around to Cape Town and do you know, that the whole journey on the way back, the water was like a

mill pond. It was marvellous then after we were in Cape Town for a day with some very nice South African people, we’d met them overseas, we went from Cape Town to Perth and I thought the ship would never stop rolling. People, it was dreadful, oh God were people sick and then to Perth. The fellow said, “Are you staying here Neville?” I said, “No, I’m not.” I said, “I have a lot to do with the Western Australia

League.” And we went on to Melbourne and Melbourne up to Sydney and then we took the train to Brisbane. Oh, it was a fabulous journey, fabulous and we’ve been right around the world. I’d been before around the other way and I settled down. I thought I could retire but oh no, no, no – money! No, money’s run made you see,

and the retirement superannuation was very poor, still is as far as I’m concerned, but then that doesn’t worry me because I can manage comfortably and then I said, “This is no good to me.” So a member of parliament directed me to the public service and I applied for a job and I got a job there at $52.00 a week, can you imagine. $52.00 a week

and I was working in the City of Brisbane in the Power Tower, in other words, in the executive building and got transferred to South Brisbane and it all started from there. While I was there I met this young lady and brought her home and introduced her to my Leila and Leila liked her, and

I’m still with her. I took her out the other day and she lives a fair way away, and she’s almost a next of kin but not quite, and Leila has 3 nieces, I have nobody. Or one 95 year old cousin that I keep in touch with. And I settled down, had a fairly good job in the works department and earned a lot

and I decided to retire which I did. And Leila was hanging on to life with the retched cancer that was ripping her to pieces, and cricket and football and Davis Cup and church and generally our life was good. And I’ve written all these books and things and made tapes for people like yourself and

what next? Well, we decided we would settle here and then time marched on and we decided on another trip. We went from Brisbane to Sydney by train to Perth and then we went to, on a freighter, we went to Singapore a few days, round to Kuala Lumpur a few

days, and Penang a few days, and back to Hong Kong and then a week in Japan. Of course, I had it made. Made. I knew my way around and I could talk a bit of the language, met friends and then we went to Vancouver and we got off the ship there and we went to Portland, yeah, Oregon that’s right, where Leila had a cousin and we stayed there for a week.

And then we went down to San Francisco where I filmed the cable trams, San Diego across to Phoenix 16 days there, took the train to Austin, we were in Texas, a girl that I used to ring, she’s 90 now, and then we took a train across to Montgomery, Miami stayed there for a few

days, dreadful hole and a British ship came in the [SS] Oriana then we went to the Bahamas and around through the Panama Canal, round to Acapulco, Vancouver, San Francisco, Metetra, Honolulu, Suva, Auckland, Sydney, Melbourne and back here.

Poor old Mum gets the lacing on this, so I could be 1000 miles away. Poor old mother she meant well and I admire her but oh dear, oh dear, she did dominate, and I just had to, and she rather resented Leila was Mrs Govett, but Leila was good to me. Oh she was wonderful to me.

They tolerated one another but there was never a bad word. In all my years of marriage I never had a sharp word with Leila. Went everywhere together, church and I still go on bus trips with the Catholic Church, they’re very nice to me. I go to any service, I’m a church-going man and I became interested

in the football. I helped build Lang Park. I’m not talking of the big built thing now. No, I’m trying to get a tablet there to recognise the families that put their time and life and money into building it, they’re forgotten. I did a lot, I’m a life member. My photograph was in the paper recently alleging that I was arguing with Beattie but I wasn’t. I have the tickets now and

go. I enjoy it and the football’s helped me, got me my home and I think I might have mentioned this. I’ve been 70 years a member of the Melbourne Cricket Ground, that’s something and 20 years a member of the Victory Club in London. I was St Kilda’s youngest member, oh I could go on and on.

Brisbane, I suppose.

No, Darwin on the new train, there you are. Well, I’d love to go back to Berlin but look, I’m too old. I’m not steady now. I regard Australia as so wonderful, why leave it? but I just haven’t got the health. I do have a pacemaker which makes me, which keeps me going. But, as I said, to

I think you and your colleague here, if your life is half as good as the one I’ve had with all the ups and downs of accidents and unemployment, you’ll have a wonderful life. Leila can’t be replaced. I wouldn’t replace Leila, she was too good, and oh, I get around but I do have to take it a little bit slowly now. I have plans to go on the new train to Townsville and I have plans

to go to Darwin on the new train, which is a few months away and, I’ve been on the old one. Bit keen on trains and that’s it.

Make sure you know what you want.

Go and talk about it and if you do go, for goodness sake, study. Get that Education Corps to teach you because that’s their best asset. Don’t go in there with the idea of bang, bang it’s a great show. I couldn’t answer for the army and the air force, ah couldn’t answer for the navy and the air force because I don’t know their ways of going about, but I’d say it could be a good life, now go for it! And

go for it with your heart. Don’t just give it a go and say, oh, I like my uniform, no. The pay is good, you don’t want big pay. Live moderately, you see that’s where I scored. I was well brought up. It was sad that my schooling was so bad, it was terrible, disgraceful and never mind, I can always look back on my wonderful father and mother

and think well, they did try, they did try but they were caught in the Depression. I feel so sad for those people who went through the Depression, it was absolutely dreadful. No person today could really imagine it. Highly intelligent people, can’t imagine what it was like. See, there was no dole. There was what they called sustenance. I think it was 6 shillings a day or week. It might

have been a week and food hand outs. I remember going past the St Kilda Town Hall one day as a little school boy or 12 year old, 13 and I went and I looked in a shed. A fellow said, “What do you want?” “Just looking.” “On your way.” Now, what I saw there were bags and bags of potatoes and stacks of cabbages and I went home and I told my mother what I’d

seen and she, in one of her better moments, said, “Now we may have to ask for that.” That’s a, what they call a hand-out. Men would go down with bags and they’d get a cabbage and some potatoes and go home. That was it. That’s what it was like. Of course, in America it was dreadful as you can see in pictures but, oh well, that’s the way it goes. I had a great interest

in the Melbourne cable trams. They were a fantastic tram and that was an interest for me and then of course, I had that camera, see and, I bought and I made movies and today it is a National Treasure, isn’t that wonderful?

Yeah it is. Others helped me but oh well, that’s the way it goes and I, I don’t really want to

go back to Melbourne. I’m happy, I’m not actually happy here, but oh it’s the greatest place in the world but I must be content. I must remember that I am not young. Oh, I’ve got plenty of good friends and they’re very nice and I go to the football on Friday night or Saturday night, I think it is. To buy seats in the Metro, what do they call it? Suncorp Metway Stadium, I don’t. It’s Lang Park to me,

yes indeed. I’m grateful to you and to those other people, Look Magazine, Channel 7 and Channel 10 too in Melbourne that filmed me, and I was able to talk shortly. Oh, make sure that, make sure that you record your story. I’m pretty good for my age I think.

Oh well. That’s what happens when you, I suppose, marry the right girl and have a good life.

Pardon?

No, she died in PA [Princess Alexandra] Hospital. She went for an operation. We were due to go to New Zealand I think on a ship, it was all booked and I said to the doctor, “She’s not well.” He said,

“No.” I said, “Could she stay in the hospital?” He said, “Yes,” so 27 December, 1995 she just faded away. It took me a long time to recover but she asked me to do a few things before she died like, not just a sudden rush, but over a period of time, and I believe I’ve carried out everything she asked me to do. She had very clever nieces in

Melbourne, one of them was in the ‘Mirror’ in Melbourne for a short time, Lorna Hanlon, and Lorna was very clever, BA [Bachelor of Arts], MA [Master of Arts] and talked several languages, very close to me. She is very good to me. Rings me every morning at 8. And my other girlfriend, with a husband Stanley rings me 5:45. She won’t get on tonight, she knows you’re coming. Well now, I hope you’re

happy with what I’ve told you?

Oh, bye now.