Australians at War Film Archive

Yes I was very much a country girl.

I was born in an old homestead, Maneau homestead.

Bareena was the district but then Maneau township was formed, named after the old property, and I was born there on the 18th of December 1919.

Oh I went to so many primary schools.

Well when my youngest brother was born my Mother had decided she would go to a private hospital [which] had opened in Murtoa, which in those days was a long drive and very few cars and help. And she went to have a bit of comfort for the fourth baby and she developed septicaemia and died,

and that was the biggest tragedy of all time of course.

What was your question about why?

Well I remember my cases were packed to go off to boarding school, because the Depression was beginning. It hadn’t really developed; it was beginning to be felt, I remember looking at those cases, off to boarding school, and then some people arrived

a couple and said that they would love to; I didn’t know them, but they would take me. Their little boy would have been the same age as I but he had died, still-born or something. When that raging ‘flu was one, do you remember they had the night? And all the doctors had left the hospital and so this lady had a tragedy with her little boy. And she decided that

they; but they were going to be paid for it, they needed the money. And so all of a sudden I was switched from going to boarding school to being with them for a wee while. But before that, my Mother had been dead about a year then and I had been switched around. Went to Nine Mile Tank school in the Mallee, which was quite an adventure.

Well I think there would be very few children there, I can’t remember clearly, but there weren’t very many. And we used to ride our little pony to school. I had been used to having my own horse and being independent, but we had to get on the wee Shetland pony and trot off. And I thought that was very bad, with this jogging along to school. But it was quite fun going through the Mallee scrub and all the growth. And I still go through the Mallee and I

can recognise the different plants and shrubs and what have you. So that was Nine Mile Tank and from there I went to quite a number of schools.

Yeah.

I was very young, not very old at all. I was fourteen, fifteen.

Oh we did ‘Merit’ didn’t we? Merit certificate.

Oh I always longed to be a nurse, all I wanted to be was a nurse. Even when I had to make my own bed and change the pillowcases I’d put a pillowcase on my head and run around, I was running a big hospital you know.

I guess I did all kinds of things. I just wanted to go nursing. But later on I went home, well the Depression was very bad then I suppose and these people, well I don’t know. I just left and went home to live with my Father and my three brothers. I had applied to go nursing, I had written away. And back home there was a letter saying that I would need shoes, I would need

uniforms, a watch, I’ve forgotten all of the other requirements. Anyway I said to my Father, “I’ve sent away to go nursing”, well he didn’t like that at all. Because, no I said to him I would need some money to go away nursing, and that wasn’t right at all. Not having his daughter, he just jumped up and

down and said, “No, you stay here, you stay here until you are twenty-one. Then you can do what you like, in the meantime no daughter of mine is going nursing.”

No he really, so whether nursing was frowned upon those days I don’t know. But that’s the end of that story, and I’d have gone if I had had the money, I’d have taken off but I didn’t have the money so.

Yes.

Oh how old would I have been when the war started? Nineteen. Well war had been declared and how old?

Oh well I was looking for something to,

I was going. And then there came news that the women’s army was being formed, I was watching for outlets I suppose, I probably didn’t realise myself. And then when I was, it’d be twenty-two wouldn’t it, I was in town with my younger brother and we were on the corner on Dandenong Road and along came this army car,

and I looked and I wondered. And my brother said, “That’s something you…” I said, “Do you think I could drive one of those army cars?” Because there used to be driving. And my brother said, “You could do that.” So I said, “Okay”, so I went off and enlisted.

Simple as that.

Oh I did have one brother; my baby brother that was with me on the corner;

he was too young to go. But I had an older brother and then the second one was James, and he was named after an uncle who had been killed in the First World War, and he joined up very early in the piece.

Oh Tobruk and El Alamain, all through there. He received a DCM [Distinguished Conduct Medal].

An award. Yes,

he did stand out in the army.

Oh we went to Glamorgan and we lived in Pentor. Just down the road from Glamorgan; Glamorgan was the training school. The old Geelong junior boys school. And we were there,

what else?

Oh then I went off to do our driving, I enlisted as a driver. You needed a licence for two years to become a driver in the army. But you still had to do the training, the mechanical and that side of it.

And we were trained, we had D&M school (driving and maintenance) and we were taught to be self sufficient with our cars, we had to do all of the running repairs. Get down the grease pits and service our cars, they were very strict about the maintenance side of it.

I don’t know. I guess not.

Oh I guess I just went in to be a driver, and they were short of drivers, very few girls, I was in the third driving and maintenance school. So I don’t think I gave them a preference.

Oh well if you lived in the country you naturally drove. People say to me, “How old were you when you learnt to drive?” Well you just drove every possible opportunity, my brothers had their own vehicles, my father had a car, so there was no shortage of… And driving, you go around the paddocks when you are very tiny and of course you want to get behind the wheel don’t you?

Yeah and away you go.

Oh we drove do you mean?

Well we had to have our, the driving and maintenance school, which is Fairfield Park down on the Fairfield Swimming and Rowing club.

Oh it is, they really did have idyllic places. And the training course was,

I think there were two men supervising us. And they were most helpful and always there. We’d spend half the day working on the cars, the mechanical side. And then the other half we used to go driving with the big trucks around the Yarra Valley, load of girls in the back and away we’d go. And then after we had been driving a week or two we would come

into the city. And we had to have licences, I’ve got the licences I had.

No two, yes you had to have that experience, two years. They were so short of drivers I think they were trying to get us out quickly onto the driving scene.

Oh not, well that was the Fairfield Swimming and Rowing club driving and maintenance one there. And then from there we went to, down here to an engineers and artillery depot. Just down here at Batman Avenue. That was my first unit. Then I went onto army inspection, no I didn’t, do you want them all? I went to George Street,

the engineers unit there in Batman Avenue was Victorian Lines of Communication: VIC LC. And then it became redundant, it was all swallowed up with other, I suppose headquarters from the barracks, they became the main headquarters for all the different units

up here. Instead of having separate little units they all became incorporated under barracks’ control. And that was great experience in Batman Avenue with the engineers, I loved it, we did all kinds of things. We did our shooting, these were the early days. We went through the gas tanks, you know, we really weren’t, we had to do exactly as the men did.

Not once we go into the - no all the marching and things was done in our rooky training. Oh we did dark duty and all kind of things in the cars, used to go around in the blackout.

Just wee ones with half slit yeah.

I wonder now too, but we used to go on the tram tracks you see and drive. There weren’t that many trams in that hour of the morning or night. That was the main way we guarded ourselves I think. Oh we used to go to Caulfield Race Course and from there right out to the showgrounds, and in between there we’d be doing all of the - we had our armed escort.

No only at night, going around all of the guard posts,

all the prisoners. The prisoners were out in Caulfield Race course, and they were a nasty little bunch. Anyone that they thought was not faithful to the cause would be thrown into Caulfield Race Course and they had to be looked after, and if there was any rain they were not to get wet. So of course in a storm they would let down their tents and be out in the rain and we have to drag the officers

out and the guards and be there, well most of them, the permanent soldiers they had to put the tents up, they wouldn’t put their tents up and all this sort of rot was going. That was at Caulfield Race course. But when we went around the docks that was fascinating because all of the ships came with the soldiers coming and going, to and fro. And we’d be asked in for - we were allowed to get out

of our cars then and go in and have a coffee or cocoa or something. They’d always be pleased to make us this great mug of cocoa which I didn’t really want but we drank it. And we’d know all of the shipping times when they came in, and even, from when they left overseas they’d have all that was planned out months and months ahead. Of course we were sworn to secrecy but once you got out it

didn’t enter your head to talk about all that, we used to hear lots of things, but once you got out of your car it didn’t enter your head to even think about them. So it wasn’t hard to forget it. If this is making sense.

Yeah but that was an experience. Then we went from there to George Street in Fitzroy

and had our garage in Smith Street. But that was only when the unit was breaking up.

Oh when we went to Batman Avenue I had a friend Joan Olley, and she was another country girl, and we remained friends for life. She died last year, but we were always great friends. And there were two older girls there,

but Joan and I - there were only four.

Yes, but Joan and I that went together, you know we were the team.

Yes it was but we left there and went to army inspection staff. They were in Exhibition Street.

Inspectors. Mainly

civilians, oh there were quite a few in uniform but they were mainly directing the civilians.

Oh army inspection staff, they were I’d say ninety percent civilians. They went around inspecting the factories and they did everything from coffins to boots. You know all the uniform, every single thing that the army bought, the big machinery

and everything, had to be inspected and okay before it ever left the works to go to the army.

Yes, and we drove them. And they were all very nice people.

I think they’d come out of the factories wouldn’t they? Somebody who knew that work from A to Z,

knew how the thing should be run and knew if there were any mistakes, or knew where to look for the mistakes I guess. Don’t you?

Oh yes they took great part in it.

And from there I went to, I drove the brigadier general of munitions in there, out of Maribyrnong, Brigadier Coffee; I was his personal driver.

Not very long at all because he said one day, “Driver

are you happy in this?” Oh I used to get up early and leave the Toorak Mansions (that was our abode); I’d have to have my car at the barracks, not in the barracks, I’d have to go and pick it up, and go over to pick him up early every morning about seven thirty to get out to Maribyrnong to be ready on the spot to start.

And so I really enjoyed it; another lass was a driver too, we took it turns, I think it was week about or fortnight about. Just to have a break and go to the country on long drives with other people. But I really liked it because if you weren’t driving him you were on call for someone else important. And then he said one day, “Driver are you happy in this position? Are you happy in your job?” And I said, “No sir I am not.”

And he nearly got out of the car. He sat up and whistled, and he said, “Now why?” And I said, “Because I joined the army and I wanted to go to Queensland, I wanted to go somewhere, I didn’t want to stay in Melbourne for so long.” And he said, “Well we’ll see about that, why don’t you put in an application to go?” Because we had an army inspection staff in all the cities.

And they were quite well run in most places. And he said, “If you want to go put in an application and I’ll see that you get there.” And I said, “I do so.” “I beg your pardon?” I said, “I put in an application every Monday morning.” And he said, “Well why don’t I get those applications?” And I said, “Well I don’t know, but I do.” And he went and said, “Well let me know what is going on, I’m going to investigate this,

because everything single that goes on has to go right through the chain up to me, I have to see it.” So that’s how I got to Queensland.

Otherwise I would have been left in Melbourne I think with all of my friends.

So there you go.

No two other girls had gone, two other drivers. And I was very put out that I hadn’t been sent too,

so there you go.

I got to Queensland. And yes, it was great.

Yes went to Brisbane, and lived in barracks. Lived out in Chermside, lived in our tents. We really were in the army up there. Until we got flooded out in our tents and had to go to, oh we all went in double decker bunks in

tin sheds sort of thing. And then that wasn’t right so eventually we were in the; Brisbane, I have to think what city I’m in. Brisbane Boys Grammar School, we were out in the yard there for a long time in tin bungalow things. And then we were put into

dormitories and that really was ideal. Army living.

I was driving. Yes we still drove the inspectors around, but they had a different type of inspection up there too.

Oh they had the water transport boys up there, it was more,

that time seemed to be more, I know we were on the Brisbane river but we were near Surfers’ [Paradise] where they were doing a lot of training for the boys who were overseas; the jungle training boys. And they had the armoured divisions up there. It was a different type of military set up for training and things.

Yes and I really enjoyed that because you really felt like you were doing something.

Oh it was filled to overflowing. All the different countries, not only the Americans. When I was in Melbourne General MacArthur was in Melbourne: that was his headquarters. Then he moved from Melbourne to Brisbane.

No I was following him. Not really, but they were in Melbourne, that’s when they had to evacuate Guadalcanal and all of those

places. They were Melbourne, they all came to Melbourne in the beginning. No use saying do you remember because -

His headquarters were in Eleventh Hotel in Brisbane and Mr MacArthur was there. And I think they had some AWAS staff, clerical staff working with them. And I think that was the beginning - I’m wondering off track now.

The army began to stir the girls for Australian women to be going; the American women were landing in Brisbane and coming there.

No there was a real division. We were well and truly in barracks; I don’t know where they were but they just went, it was a different sort of lifestyle for the Americans all

together to the Australian boys.

We’re deteriorating aren’t we?

I was in Melbourne in

‘42. I was in Melbourne quite a while. I was getting restless, because my brother was back from overseas and then he was off [to] New Guinea and you know. How long was I in Brisbane; the end of ‘43 I think. That’d be a good twelve, then I went to New Guinea. No, I’m a bit out of

sync aren’t I?

When did we go to New Guinea? ‘45 the war ended didn’t it? And we were in training, I was in Brisbane quite [a] while wasn’t I, I think.

Well that’s when I went to New Guinea. And they weren’t really taking drivers, because there was nowhere to drive up there. Jungle and no roads,

and it was rather dangerous too for women. Well they were looking after us then, now I know they all get out and go. But those days we were but, very much under control I think. We had to know our place.

That’s right. So there you go.

I’ll tell you how long I was in Brisbane in a minute.

It’d be a good eighteen months wouldn’t I?

Fifteen months.

Oh we were well sheltered and very much under control. Oh it was exciting to even be out driving. You know where the traffic lights in the street are, there’d still be policemen in the centre, even with the traffic lights. Trying to take advantage of any, keep the traffic moving.

Of course we all got to know the young policemen, that was always nice to have a wave but that’s as far as it went. Some would pop into the garage for coffee. But there was nothing. And we were well under control, to have leave, all the theatres were full, everything was full. Overflowing with -

No.

And the river, the river through the city, that was a cutting off point for lots of the troops, they were given leave over the river, so that cut a lot out.

Yeah. And then when we went out, but the only way you could leave was to go to - they had the Brisbane Technical School in South Brisbane, and it, oh they had

marvellous courses there. They had cooking, and all kinds of things, floristry. And then we decided, we did our cooking course and that was a success because that way you could have a leave pass. We didn’t have any official time for drivers to finish, you know how you have the hours. We were finished when the inspection staff were finished their work. So there’d be time to go and have dinner

in between starting the course at the tech [technical school]. So we decided we’d do [a] course, and that way we could get out of barracks and we could go out for dinner. If you’re meeting friends you could always have a nice dinner with them and then go onto the cooking class or whatever the session was. So we filled out evenings, and it was a great life, it was nice to go out to dinner, because there was loads of opportunities to go out with people

for dinner but it was all invitations. So we would go to our classes. And that’s the way we got out of camp so much.

And that’s how I got to New Guinea. Because in New Guinea they only wanted very trained, efficient staff; there was no one sent there, we had to pass tests to go. So we’d been doing oh secretarial and office training, and we really

enjoyed it, you know the typing and, oh I can’t think of that,

Yeah a little bit of shorthand. So that’s how we got to New Guinea, because we really accomplished driving and clerical. Had we not done those courses we wouldn’t have been in the division group.

What was that?

Was it the army?

I think so.

Well partly why we did the secretarial course we felt the war was, you know, there would be an end to it. And we just wanted something to go out and be accomplished, other than driving, we didn’t think there’d be any opening for the drivers. That is why we did this training.

And at the same time we all wanted to go nursing, and we had applied; you could get

a release from the army at this stage to go nursing because they were so short of nurses. The men were away overseas and all the women were being occupied and the nursing staff was low. So we put in our applications to go to that and didn’t get a reply. And then the major of the driving came out and said, “What about you two girls, would you be interested in going to New Guinea?”

He said, “ I’ve got the letter here from barracks and they’ve asked me to see if I have got any girls who would”; you didn’t have to go to New Guinea unless you wanted to. So we said, “Yes, we certainly would” (we hadn’t had a reply from the matron of Sydney Hospital). And we said we couldn’t think of anything better, by this time, to get out of Brisbane and go somewhere else. So that’s how we got there. And then we received a letter from the matron of the hospital, after

we had been chosen, to say that she hadn’t replied to our letter because there was a shortage of everything; her forms she had applied for them but there was such a shortage of paper she hadn’t received the forms. And she thought it was better to write one letter and send the form than to waste all of the paper I suppose writing. And that’s how we missed out on going nursing. It was sad.

It was sad. So there you go, that’s how we got to New Guinea.

Oh no. We were the only two drivers that were chosen to go in the corps to New Guinea. My friend Sally Fendleson and myself.

No we didn’t go to Port Moresby, we went to Lae.

Yes.

Japan, September wasn’t it? The we didn’t come home until the next year because you don’t just walk out of it of course, there’s a big clean up and a wind-up; a lot of work to be done. One lot went home but I was in the second lot to come home.

I don’t know, isn’t that dreadful? Was it March or May?

Yes the war had long finished.

Yes although by that time you were wanting to come home. Because everyone was going and you’re still sitting there, there was lots of work to do and you knew you couldn’t just go. And then I went back to my army inspection driving, back here in Melbourne,

to get my discharge, whilst I was waiting for my discharge.

Not that long. I think it was June, July, August. It would be in the old pay book though wouldn’t it?

Yes, we decided we would have a holiday and go to the Blue Mountains, or Sydney. So we had our holiday in the Blue Mountains which was very lovely. And visited my friends. We had friends in all the cities by this time. Because in Melbourne you only had Victorians see? But in these other places they had a mixture, it was great.

So we had our holiday in the Blue Mountains, and we were looking through the Sydney Morning Herald and we thought, “This Sydney is great”. It really was a lovely city too, you could find your way around it easily. And there was a notice in the paper that said, ‘Ex-servicemen required’. So we thought that’s us. It was the Sydney Morning Herald they were advertising, it was men’s pay, it was good.

So we went in and applied to the Sydney Morning Herald, the two of us together. Sally my friend and Mr James I think was the personnel officer and he said, “I’m almost tempted to give you girls these positions; these are only for men you know”. And we said, “Oh well we thought we’d have a go”, we were ex-service personnel. And said, “Oh well I’ve got a good mind”, but he said, “You wouldn’t stay here.” I said, “Yes I will, I’ll stay a year.” And he said, “In that case you can have a position.” So we were two of the first

girls to be employed in a [newspaper]. They did have their cadet reporters, female cadets, but we worked for the staff for men.

At the Sydney Morning Herald? Yes, but not office personnel. So we went in and that was great, we got this good pay.

Yes. And they gave us - because we didn’t have any clothes or anything. Went looking for luscious undies and all this sort of thing. So that was great and I stayed there for twelve months.

No I didn’t type so much; I was more or less on the counters. My friend Sally did a lot, I escaped. But I didn’t do so much typing in New Guinea either, I had a typist or there was a typist there.

Yes.

Well do you know Donald, and do you know Stawell? It’s in the Wimmera, southern Wimmera.

Well there is a lot of grazing. It is wheat country now,

because wheat became money in 1960. Wheat was money, gold. And of course they all reverted. But in those days it was grazing.

Wheat and oats.

No not so many cattle, although later on in years everyone ran the cattle

too because cattle became money. But those days well you did have your own cows naturally, well you’d have four cows but that would be the lot for milking for the homestead and for anyone who was working in the cottage. Four cows would be sufficient I think. And then of course

wheat harvest, that was busy and very big. And sheep shearing, that was colossal, so we must have had more sheep.

Yes. But, well, mixed farming I suppose you’d call it. And those days I suppose you didn’t have as much mixed farming.

And of course horses they had to have galore; no tractors

The tractors and all that came later.

I don’t remember that so there must have been one. But I don’t think the big expensive heavy machinery came in until the end of ’30, about the beginning of the war. It was beginning to come then.

Oh you’d have a little portable electric - well when did they come in?

Not when I was very young but I wouldn’t be allowed in the shearing shed then see? Later on they had their little portable machinery. Shears for the sheep and all that type of thing.

Well lots of mothers did those days.

Oh my brother survived.

Oh yes my brother did. But that was all very bleary really, my mother’s death was.

Oh I think my mother dying; that was the end of his world for a while. And we had always had lovely homesteads and a lovely home and he sold up the property we were on. We had been in the Maneau homestead which apparently my mother loved. It was only a

slab homestead, it was the old original one. And from there we went to a lovely homestead: Avon Plains it was called. Near Rich Avon, all of these funny names. And then the Depression must have been starting because for some reason he didn’t keep that Avon Plains property. We left there and went back to the Maneau

one. So I think the Depression was coming and he gave away just to concentrate on one property I think. And then when my mother died he just sold the homestead and bought another property. He sold everything, every single thing. And then he went to this new property for sale and it was closer to the Maneau township. Called Dundonald. And that had

a beautiful woolshed, you were talking about shearers - made me think of it. He went there to live.

Oh yes when I was younger. And then when I went to live with these Mr and Mrs Ramsey, I refused to call them uncle or aunty or anyone. They were always, I must have been a horror I think, she’d have liked me to call her Aunty and I wouldn’t.

I must have been a bit defiant about that. She was very good to me but very, very strict. And I didn’t have horses or any pets or anything there. Scarcely a doll as a matter of fact. They were just, she was very, very religious and you mustn’t have worldly things. Someone at a show gave me a cupie [doll] on a stick. Oh they used to have beautiful cupies at the shows and I used to love them. So I came home with this mauve purple cupie and I hung it on my dressing table

and I had to give that away to some poor child who didn’t have a toy.

So that’s how strict they were. Apart from that, back to horses and things, no I didn’t have any pets there but occasionally I’d get a holiday at home with my father and whoever was running the place then.

Oh no, it was magical. When my Mother was alive and especially when we were at this rich Avon homestead; that was really idyllic and lovely. There was a garden slope down to the river and there was a concrete swimming [pool], not like they have now.

A lovely swimming pool by the river, and all the bamboo and a little - what do you call these little garden sheds? Not garden sheds, they’ve got a name.

Yeah, gazebo down this side of the garden and [a] lavender path. It was very nice, really lovely.

It was. And my grandfather ran a palomino stud: horses. And then when he died my father had had a few

I suppose to make the property decorative, I don’t know. But I can remember the horses and there’d be a little creamy foal, that’s how I remember it I suppose. And I suppose being an only girl I suppose I was really pampered and spoilt. Back to Maneau was lovely, back to the old homestead, I think everyone felt at home again. And there was always a pretty garden around it.

Oh yes there was always help in the houses. Suzy Chinner I don’t know where she came from. That was part of the scene, and that had cottages. Every farm had a cottage, well not any, any reasonable sized property. I think they took a pride in having their married couples and the lady would come down in the homestead and do the work.

And there would probably be a girl helping in the kitchen who did the cooking. There was often a boy doing the chores around the garden, around the home. Take the scraps out you know and feed the fowls and milk the cows. There was always someone for those jobs because you could employ people. And people in the little towns, they relied on that, coming out to get jobs on the farm.

But it was run that way I think.

No they had lots of schools. And you’d all - all the children were from farms, no townships, most of the schools when you were out in the country. Ride a horse.

Oh that was in the Mallee, that was when I was moving around. That was at Nine Mile Tank.

I suppose there was so many miles to a tank do you think? I’ve often wondered that. The water was scarce those days wasn’t it? Especially in the Mallee. And I often wondered did they, I’ve read the stories of it but no-one was ever interested. Trying to recall it? Were they going there for their water?

And then there were other schools with a different, ‘so many mile’ tank.

So it must have been. That wouldn’t be hard to check up on because I have read about [why] they received those names, I just can’t recall. Might have been nine miles from the biggest town. But there was nothing there except this wee school. I couldn’t tell you the school teacher’s name.

Yeah that’s all they used to have in those tiny schools.

I don’t know. Some of the lessons you’d do together. I can remember at Rich Avon they went and robbed a bee hive so of course the whole school was out at that. The teacher liked bees and all of this type of thing. There must have been a

few communities mustn’t there?

They were very happy little schools though.

Oh no I think it was very pleasant. I’m not sure because I can’t remember much of it. But I remember they were very happy days and I was so little. I was going to school when I was about four I suppose, just to go to school.

Begged to go; it was such a happy place.

Oh I don’t know. I suppose the cook would have to make the sandwiches wouldn’t she? They were always luscious and nice. We didn’t take the extra sweets and things they do now. It was just mainly you get your sandwiches. They were quite exciting,

it was quite a thrill to have your lunch. Little wee cases they would be in, your lunch boxes. We were quite proud of our - they were more like little suitcases those days. They weren’t all the plastics and all the other.

And all the tasty little things in it. And they used to make lots of biscuits and cakes and just laid on, wasn’t it in those days? You wouldn’t remember. Plenty of eggs and butter and milk and all of the luscious things that made rich cakes.

Oh yes every Monday morning. Oh yes and the flag and we meant it too. Hand over your heart. That went right on, that went on for years right up until the war wasn’t it?

Oh yes you’d march around the flagpole.

I was trying to recall while I was talking to you and I strayed a bit. Oh I remember: “To do my duty to King and country” was it? Or God? Oh God first wasn’t it?

Oh yes I’m sure they were put there. I can nearly recite it, I’ll tell you later.

Oh British. The lady I lived with she was Welsh. Oh yes. And the baby Princesses and the Duke and Duchess of York came out. I could tell you all of that history if I really concentrated.

Yes.

Her parents were Welsh.

I suppose I would be about seven.

Yes.

Oh they had the, something, model farm of the Wimmera.

Everything in its place and a place for everything.

No. Her baby had died - I used to hear about that, which was very tragic - when that dreadful ‘flu raged.

Yes. The doctors and everyone, the whole staff fled the hospital. And she was just unfortunate that she was in hospital at that time and you couldn’t leave could you in that condition.

Yeah. In Stawell they did, she had to go to Stawell. So it was very tragic and very sad. Imagine.

Yeah. I think so.

Just that they had the beautiful stable. Oh I suppose the Depression wrecked them;

you see they had put all their money into the property and then there would be nothing coming off it. And then the Horry Chris set in, this dreadful weed. Oh I was told how far underground the roots went and then you could shoot it and kill it and then it would spring up somewhere else. I remember hearing the whole history of Horry Chris, over and over. And that’s destroyed a lot of their wheat farming. They were solely wheat farmers. Out at Rupanyup, between

Rupanyup and Mattara. And I remember one, the money was very scarce, very difficult. So that’s why they had me I suppose; help pay the expenses.

And they were very strict, and she was very old worldy and very strict about your clothes and your dressing.

Oh she was -

one was Methodist and one was Presbyterian, but I suppose they were the only churches in the town, weren’t they?

I don’t think either of them did. Very, very strict.

I don’t think; my Father didn’t want us I’m quite sure. Well no it wasn’t that. How would you travel, how would you get there, you see?

Well Rupanyup was fifteen miles,

about seventeen miles I would say. I hope I’m right.

Oh no, my Father would have a car. The Ramseys had a car but only very rarely did it come out of its garage. But my Father he loved his vehicles and his travelling.

I really don’t remember. But I’d

be in my teens, I did go home to my Father and brothers. And I used to come and go for holidays, but my Grandmother moved out and lived with him on the property for a while when he left; set up on the new place. It was rather a lovely property really that he bought up; after my Mother died he sold up and he bought this one. This one come up on the market near Maneau. And

my Grandmother, and we had a lady looking after my little brother, they lived on the property for a while, possibly that was to establish him in the new home. And then they returned back to their home. It’s all garbled isn’t it?

And when my baby brother was old enough he was sent home… two of my brothers. See we were all farmed out coming and going around the country.

It was. Well one parent families these days, well there were one parent families those days weren’t there? Very much so.

Oh with the Ramseys they were very, very strict but when I went home it was a different way of life.

Oh the property that the Ramseys had was very small. Very close to Rupanyup, it was a ten mile, I’m back in miles.

It was ten miles from Rupanyup to Mattara and they were on the main Mattara road. Within walking distance from the road. And you would get lots of people knocking on the door there. Just wanting sandwiches or just any food. They’d chop your wood, they’d come and ask if

there was anything you wanted done about the place. Which Mrs Ramsey was always terrified, and she used to say, “Now you go to the phone and you get the chair and if I call to you, you ring the phone and call for help, the police or something.” So that used to be my job when these - some of them did look tough and rough too. And near the

town I suppose if they had had any money they’d be coming from the hotel wouldn’t they? And they’d come with their swags and they’d ask; I suppose it was because you were so near the road this would happen. But nothing ever happened. But they were always willing to chop the wood or gather the eggs. Anything, they’d say any job, any sticks to pick up for morning wood, just give them some food. Most of them wanted to do something for what they received.

I think they were a bit shattered, there was very rarely jobs for them. But I think they hoped for a job to go thistle-cutting; job for a little while.

I can remember that but not much more.

No, no.

I went home. Went home to my - we had

married couples on the property, and they would come down and do the work in the kitchen, oh the lady would: Betty Robson.

No, they were nearly all, no. I did in Rupanyup, I had the doctor’s daughter Leslie Carpet, we were great friends. But when I went home nearly all of the neighbours had sons. There were no daughters.

Oh there was two down the road but they were a wee bit older.

No, not when I was growing up. No. But I was very happy with my three boys around.

Well I suppose there were women coming in the house, and when I was a bit older I used to manage a lot of the things myself. But when I was growing up, there’d be different ones would come. Like the lady in the cottage, she’d come down and I suppose she’d cook the midday meal.

Oh yes very chatty.

And I was well educated before I left Mrs Ramsey’s.

Yes, and the lady across the road, Mrs Mule, I used to go and see her every Wednesday afternoon I think. Have a cup of tea. And then come back.

Oh I think no, that came later I think. I’m sure it did,

there wasn’t any of that going on. See they had to travel, and that took a lot of petrol, and a lot of them didn’t have very good cars.

No, no.

Yes I recall it very clearly. It was a Sunday evening. I hear some people saying it was a Sunday morning, but it wasn’t, it was Sunday evening.

And we were sitting around listening to the radio, and on came Prime Minister Menzies’ voice, you could tell it anywhere. And so telling us in this very sombre tone that we were now at war. So there you go. Third of the ninth, ’39.

Well you could feel in the air it was coming. The week before the war I remember we were on the direct flight path from Melbourne to Adelaide and I remember one night my father going out and planes were going over and he said, “You know I’m sure this is something to do with the war; I’m sure there’s activity of the planes”, you could hear there was activity in those days and they weren’t that high. And he said, “I’m sure there is going to be a war declared very soon.”

Oh yes my father loved reading and listening. He loved studying and reading. He always had time for that, the other men could work the property but he always had time for his reading. And yes it was always discussed.

Well believe it or not, there was a lass out of Horton, I think her name was something Gregory or something. And she was trying to earn a living and she got herself a little car, or a utility or something, and she set it up as a little travelling library. And she’d come around all of the properties and call in. I

can’t remember how often she’d call but very frequently. And she’d have these library books, and you paid so much to her. So in a way you were kept up with the world. And he had the other books he wanted, and what to read. He loved Charles Dickens; he had all these rows of books.

Oh the funny little wireless.

Oh what was it? Bomber Betty. Was it?

Nine o’clock.

Yes that was midday. I think Bomber Betty was nine in the morning. Oh you just couldn’t miss them. They were so, they just kept you up to date and you were with it, you just didn’t want to miss them. Or was that because we were so stranded and so out of the way, I don’t know.

I think I should

have been; I would have liked to have been. I know I can always remember my mother with her music, she wanted an organ not a piano. I had an extension from the wireless through the wall from the sitting room into the kitchen. So I must have wanted it around me all of the time.

Oh we didn’t know there was opportunities for women then to go. But I had a brother who had been in the armoured car at Horsham and they had been away training. But he didn’t go to the war, he and my brother by that time were share-farming. And this is when I remember the wheat being grown, you see they were growing wheat. My father had mainly sheep.

So they had this harvest to get off, they had the harvest to harvest and then they wouldn’t have time to, they’d be thinking about the war but then my second brother, I suppose it would be January of ’40, came in one day and said he was going in to

enlist. Going to town. He wanted to go in the air force. And it was a big jolt, we knew it would come but… Anyway he went down and applied to join the air force and they asked him his occupation and he said, “Wheat farming and grazing”. And they said, “We don’t want you here, you can go home.” They must have been getting enough men those days enlisting.

And they said, “You can go home and work your property.”

But he didn’t do that he went to the Melbourne town hall and enlisted in the army.

That’s what he thought, not really. And then, so that left my eldest brother to do the farming. Naturally being the older one he knew more about the business management and the running of it.

It was, that was the scene.

I had an uncle in the First World War and he was James too see? So a bit of a tradition wasn’t it?

Yes.

No I wasn’t. James my brother was. And when he was born the midwife said to my Mother,

“What are you naming the baby?” And she said, “Oh (whatever the name was)”, and my Grandmother had the new baby and she was carrying him out of the room and said, “James, that’s who he should be: James.” Harold and Mum said, “Of course”. That’s how he got the name.

No he was at Gallipoli wasn’t he?

I’m sure he was. Yeah. That’s in 1917, no it’s a bit out. I know it was Gallipoli.

Oh yes and when you visited Grandam there was of course the large portrait. They all had those large portraits in those days didn’t they? They hung on the wall. His medals were there.

Oh I think he was just accepting of it.

Oh yes.

Oh no, it had been most of my days. And of course when the war broke out, I thought, “Oh I can be a nurse and go away”. But it didn’t work out that way.

Oh no I wasn’t allowed.

Oh I think he was very selfish.

We’ll just pass on.

Oh we used to -

where’s my two, older brothers. No we’d come to town occasionally, more often.

I think I possibly read, I always see the piece in the Argus [newspaper] where it said about this Women’s Service was forming, an army,

what would you call it? Women’s army.

And I think I followed, I really think I followed everything about it. Because we were ahead of the WAAAF [Women’s Auxiliary Australian Air Force] and the navy.

Yeah I think I sort of had my eye on it all the time. Perhaps unconsciously.

No I can’t but I can almost visualise where I read about this women’s army corps service.

No, no.

No, no. I was going to drive a car.

I think so.

No it wasn’t that, no. We really had to look after our cars. We had to be mechanics,

We had to have all these licences, do it the same as the men did. The trucks, and the various jeeps and you name it. I probably have it in here somewhere. We did it and we had to understand, don’t forget the motors were very simple then.

We did it

No I didn’t need anyone’s permission. No. I knew what I wanted to do I think.

Oh and Father had married again.

Yes.

Well I enlisted in ’42 didn’t I? Anyway he had married again. And I really felt that I was better, I really was looking for somewhere to go, an outlet. But my step-mother was a very lovely person so that’s okay.

She lived there,

so it was time to go.

I knew you asked me, and I was trying to think. It was a little, just up the top of town. Oh Swanson Street, her name was Major Deesie I think.

Yeah, yeah. On her own, sitting up in this little tram sheddy sort of place.

Yes.

Well she made quite an impression, she was far more serious and overbearing than I thought, you know, expected. But that was very good because you were going to be in the army. And she was the only officer

I ever met who was like that.

Oh she was quite nice, but she really pulled her rank. And I suppose that was the way to be too when you were going into the position.

But she was very firm, oh yes.

On no, not really. She

was quite nice, but you really did feel her presence. As I said she is the only one who ever, all the others were, they were above reproach, they set a pattern and standard and that Sybil Irving I think she was really outstanding.

Well I didn’t feel it was, I can remember going up for a medical, but I was quite impressed. I thought it was - no, I felt was nothing like that.

I can’t remember.

But they checked out my teeth and they checked us all over and everyone was very pleasant.

Oh no it was very serious, I wasn’t filled with trepidation but you were made to feel like it was quite serious.

There was nothing anything like that, flippant.

Oh yes you were going to be there I suppose until you were too old. Those days if you married you were out I suppose.

Yes.

Oh no, no, no. I didn’t have any of that at all.

Well after we had applied, we didn’t go in straight away, we went home and we were called up. And then I said to a cousin of mine (met her one day in town for lunch), “I’ve joined the army”, and she said, “Wait for me I’m coming too”.

So you must have been able to postpone the date from when applied, must have been some time period granted to us.

Yeah the date. So I waited a wee while for Eila otherwise I’d have been a bit earlier. But that’s how it went on.

You mean to Glamorgan?

Oh we just found our way there I think.

I think it was always - I met Eila down at Flinders Street corner, and then we just caught the tram and went to Glamorgan, I’m sure.

In Pentor. It was a lovely old home. Oh it was just divine, the garden was full of all the

scenty things that come out in July and I can still remember the evenings there; it was just beautiful, the settings and the surroundings and the ascetics.

Yes they had very large rooms and there was beds all around. That was for our training.

At Glamorgan?

Oh we had wonderful lectures. Marching, drill, we went out and drilled in some of the streets in Toorak. We were very quiet because it was wartime and there was traffic. And I thoroughly enjoyed it actually.

No, no. We just marched.

Oh they’d slip and slide. We had the wedgies and I had a nice smart pair of those on. And you could scarcely stand, sliding and slipping around.

Yes they were. You didn’t have to have these wedgie things, but they were new and awfully smart. And I can remember

when the parade, forward march, it was a battle. Had I had the normal army shoes I would have plodded off. But we didn’t, we weren’t issued with them then, we did that in our civvies [civilian clothing].

Oh yes we all entered into it, everyone there was trying I think.

We were well lectured and well drilled in it before we went out to the drill and we had a, I can’t remember the man’s name giving us the drill, but he meant business, he’d be a -

Yeah it was good. The men were drilling us and running us those days because it was early days.

No, no.

No, no.

To the Yarra: the Fairfield Swimming and Rowing Club.

We went straight from Glamorgan to that.

Went straight in.

When we finished our rookies’ training we had to have somewhere to live, and they were taking over hostels and homes to put the girls in, and I went down, oh just out here to Toorak Mansions,

189 Toorak Road, and I was the first one in, they had only opened up that morning. So I was fortunate I had somewhere to go without being pushed out to barracks further out. And I walked in, and the nicest YWCA [Young Men’s Christian Association] ladies were running it, and they said, “Well you’re first in the door you can have the pick of the rooms”. I meant to bring some photo’s of Toorak Mansions because there were lots and lots of these little tiny rooms. So I went up and I had my first choice

and I thought, “Oh!” - it was wonderful.

Then we went off to our transport training.

I have all my own books, they are all at home in the country in storage. I have got every one.

Because they were so clear and so - they really were worth keeping and looking at.

Oh yes we had special doctors in lecturing us on the health side of it, cleanliness, hygiene. Right from the word go. You know, it was thoroughly done, and you really took notice and decided to abide by the rules; it was great.

Oh no they didn’t go into that so much, not in the rooky school.

No male officers in the PT [physical training], the exercises we had the men doing that.

Yes the female officers would go marching with us, we’d be in formation, oh we took a pride in it. In the

forming ranks, and filing and drilling, and then lining up for the march. And the female officers would march along the side of us and watch us all and keep their eye on us. We didn’t want to disobey but we all had to get along and do what we were told or we were called to attention. But that was all accepted and it was great.

Oh it all fell into place, I didn’t find it hard at all.

Oh I think so. Actually the first night I was there, somebody asked me, was I nervous the first night? How did I accept it? And I said, “Well I marched into Pentor and decided to go to bed very early I suppose”;

I’d be very weary after travelling all of those distances to get there. And in comes the officer on duty and she says, “Is there a Margaret Anderson here?” So here I was and she was an Aloe Miller and she was an officer; she had been down and done her training, and she was looking for me because she lived in the next district. And she was interested to see [me].

From the Wimmera. And she made herself known, she knew everybody I knew and I knew everyone she knew. But that was great, and then from then on it was always great to see her about. She would say, “hello” and I had no need to feel lonely, she was just gorgeous.

It was all charm.

When I applied you had forms to fill out that you take with you. And I don’t know whether there was anything on that about becoming a driver. You had to have two years

experience, that’s all I can remember. I suppose when she was interviewing and I was so keen. I really felt that I was going into the army to be a driver, it hadn’t entered my head that I could be doing anything else.

And so when I was, I was looking forward to it you know. So I suppose I was so eager and I was so keen and, I suppose I’d asked would I be able to be a driver, I don’t know.

I was just going to be a driver.

Oh we had chevs and dodges. Fords. And oh we didn’t actually doing the driving of the staff car driving there. We drove trucks and heavy, if we had two years experience we didn’t need to do the, so much of the rules.

Yes but then you’d travel. No before, I remember. Before I joined I went and took a course from a driving school, because if I was going to drive in the city see I would need to know all of the rules and regulations, so I went and did this course from the driving school, and that was a great help I’m sure.

I only did it because I was a country girl and I wanted to be up to date with the city driving.

Oh yes I had that down.

But I really enjoyed it because it does give you more confidence,

When you come to the city, I mean if you’re a country driver. I still think I would go and do a course with a driver school if I was let loose in the city. Even nowadays.

Well during war time, peak hour, the city could be quite congested even then.

I really don’t think so. The police horses used to go by around the town. You’d be looking out and it was such a pleasure to see them. And they’d be around the streets here, but they didn’t interfere

with the traffic.

Yes you had to watch out for the horses because they would be in control of the street, they wouldn’t be used to the traffic at night. They knew their round by heart didn’t they, the horses.

Fords.

Running boards?

Oh yes they all had running boards those days.

No I don’t think so. Because

I think being a woman you knew the war would end. No I don’t think so.

Oh no you get the feel of them, you could spin them, to reverse park or to drive you could spin them as simple as anything. I think they were simpler really.

Yeah.

Oh well you had to because it was your car and your job. And there was a form filled in if you couldn’t, something thirteen I think it was called, to say that you needed a mechanic to come

adjust your car. But you had to be pretty sure that you couldn’t do it yourself. But the motors were so simple. I think we had a hundred questions to learn, a clutch, engaging and disengaging, the power from the transmission at the will of the driver and it went on and on and on. And daily maintenance was POWLET, ‘petrol oil water…’;

it was initials.

Yeah POWLET: Power, Oil, Water, Lights, Ignition, Tyres. And that was your daily one. You had to fill up your car every night with petrol; rain, hail or shine you had to go down to Sturt Street and have the car filled ready for the next morning. And you had to check that oil gauge whether you knew it was full of oil or not, it was great.

I don’t know.

Reasonably late, I’m sure of it.

Yeah your distributors and that used to block very easily. And you learnt that you picked up a hunk of brick and give it a crack, if there was a bit of sludge and that in the fuel. It was mainly that type of thing. And your spark plugs and things and you had to,

Switch them over, it was all so simple when you think about it now, but we thought we were really -

We had to know to change our tyres, you had to change a tyre in so many minutes, that was part of the exam. That’s hard work.

Well most of the places had grease pits, you went down underneath and lighting it up and standing up.

And wiping them off and cleaned. Because they would always come along and inspect it and wipe it and any grease came off you were in trouble. So you really had to be fussy and pedantic and make sure things were right.

Yes, yes. Overalls and old hats. Oh yes they were great, we liked getting into those and we liked getting in and

getting greasy.

Well over at Batman Avenue they were really helpful

and they would probably do more than they should for you. And then when we got to the army inspection staff the men had the garage in Exhibition [Street] and the women had the garage in Longstaff, and we were an entirely complete section. The women ran it and we did all of our work. Oh we had an old man, I suppose he was from the

First World War, he would guard us in at night and show us into our parkings. He was the only man in the place but he was just more or less an odd job man around the place. Keys on the shuttle. And when they were new there was just a ledge behind the steering wheel you know all of your instruments and so, I can still hear him telling you, we used to call him Pa or something, “Just go in”; you’d have to be able to reverse in just

your right amount of space perfectly. Shouting at you, but they were all very nice people. We didn’t mix with them to have them patronising us really.

Yes they were painted.

I’m sure they were.

I’m sure yeah because you didn’t need them in the day so they could do that.

Only when I was at Batman Avenue, when I went out, that was their job to go around testing all of the spots that were danger spots, if there was going to be any turmoil or trouble.

Oh I suppose they’d think there could be a bombing or there could be some shooting or something.

Because we’d drive the captain of the guard, they were down in the artillery section. We were engineers down, it’s gone now hasn’t it, just gone recently. We were the engineers down this way and they had some cottages down there. So when we were on night duty you were on with the ones in the cottage. We used to have an electric stove, we used to leave it on half the night because it was the only way to get a hot drink before you went out. Until we got reported.

And they’d have the guard inspector, an officer, he’d be in front with you and then you’d have an armed escort in the back. A couple in the back with guns. They really did expect trouble, especially around the docks; that was a bad area those days.

It was just a danger area I think. You wouldn’t know when you were driving your car through but they were on the lookout for all sorts, anything. I think

people were just a bit hostile weren’t they.

No it wasn’t because we were female, it was because of the area, they wouldn’t know with the car if it were [a] female driving it or a man. But they did have their own guards in the back.

No we had a garage over there and we had a transport officer. And you had your work tickets, your daily work tickets.

Some days. Other days if you’re only on short trips you would run in and hand your work ticket back. It had to be signed the time you left, and it had to be signed the moment you returned by a

senior person. And if you had your daily work ticket, well you had all your jobs to do on that. And in our glove boxes, say you were going out to Broadmeadows or somewhere right through the city, they would tell you the quickest way to get there, the streets and that. I still wish I had one because they were very, very good. Go out through Petrie and take a shortcuts, dodge the busy streets and

just to be quick.

Yes they were in your glove box.

And they were a great help because you knew almost every street on them and it saved a lot of effort and thought and worry.

I think I must have been. Didn’t worry, you just took a pride in it. We were better drivers than the men, the women. Especially when we were in opposition, we get in opposition to

the men, they weren’t opposition but they were there, but the women didn’t have the accidents the men had. Not that they had bad accidents, but we didn’t even have the knocks and the scrapes. My only scrap was when the General Grant tank hit me down Spencer Street.

Nothing.

Oh yes they were huge,

very early tank. They were new I think, running down Spencer Street in the five o’clock traffic, which was very thick and heavy. And here was this thundering thing bounding along. And the officer I was driving said, “Pull over, go slowly, I want to have a look, get closer.” Of course there’s these great bounds on it. Next thing I knew there was this great

screech and my running board was gone. But that was all right.

Yes. No just bounds.

But yes that’s my only scrape I ever had.

No we were running side by side.

Yes he knew very well, he knew he shouldn’t be in Spencer Street

at five o’clock too.

Yes he had no right to be down there. They were young and carefree and taking a shortcut through from where he was going I suppose.

Oh yes you had all these forms to fill out, but I was fortunate I had an officer and he stepped out and took charge. And the young officer was there

and they exchanged names and that was about all. Then the young officer asked me if I would have dinner with him. And I said, “Yes I would”, and that’s all that ever happened. He just said, “I’ll take the driver to dinner, I am so sorry. Will you have company?” Averetti’s was an underground place opposite The Australian. So I went back and I went out to dinner and that was the end of that.

No, he was very sorry that he had hit me.

But he wasn’t in any trouble because it was part of driving wasn’t it, part of the five hour crush.

Oh yes, you’re in charge of the car, complete control that was up to you. They couldn’t give you instructions, they would tell you where they were going.

And they would usually be in the back seat, if you were in the car with one person, if they were regulars they would often be in the front seat with you. But if it was someone of higher rank, some of the cars have little tables across the back of the front seat, and sometimes they would lift the table and they would have to make notes on it or something, as they were travelling,

which was good. Because then you could just go and they were busy. But they were very, very nice, just pleasantries.

Yeah if you were driving and you had three or four, you weren’t allowed more than one in the, sometimes if you didn’t have gearsticks

you could have two in the front, but usually only one in the front. And three in the back. But yes they’d have their discussions but see you were under - you just didn’t repeat it or you just didn’t discuss it.

Oh I can’t really recall it. But I know when we were down at the docks and looking at the timetables of the ships you’d never dream of discussing it, never. It just wouldn’t enter your head.

Yeah if you wanted to you could go and look at all the wall, it used to shock me a bit but it was interesting. I used to wander over and look at the wall and I loved to know the names of the ships, the Queen Mary and the others. And they would be due here, and then they would go back. And they had the date they would go back.

Yes. If you wanted to.

But it wouldn’t enter your head to, otherwise you wouldn’t be in there, wouldn’t be asked in for coffee or anything. But it was there.

I don’t think so, but if you did, you’d just be so busy with what you had to do and get there on time, it’d be just -

Otherwise you wouldn’t have had that job.

Yeah if you wanted your job you just got on with it.

Not during wartime no.

No they wouldn’t. They took too, I think they were too proud of their position. The only nice thing they would do is sometimes say, “I’ll open

the door for you and you get in”. Just little things like that. But never - but then they had to be pretty sure of the driver too. They wouldn’t dare, because you could go and report them and they’d be - No there was none of that, not with me anyway.

Oh you could if you wanted to.

Oh no, he was mine. He was quite nice, no you wouldn’t be bothered discussing it because you’d be on a different time slot to the other girls. You’d be up and out to take him to work early in the morning, and you’d take him home when he finished at night, whereas the other girls would be all in and finished. And you wouldn’t be on parade in the garage,

they go on parade morning and night. You weren’t in that because you were out on a different thing all together.

Oh well Melbourne was different. Yes, when we living at Toorak Mansions you were free. You know that was a hostel that was a different scene altogether to being in camp.

Well we had to get up pretty early so you had to choose it pretty carefully. But there were lovely shows on, lovely live shows. And see you’d do the rounds, you’d see every one that was on. But we didn’t go very far because you had to be up early, and you had to do your laundry and your chores and fly around.

Well we just accepted it.

No not really because that was your job. And we were in uniform and you were not supposed to go out in cities at all.

Well in Brisbane you weren’t, when we were in barracks. You just didn’t, we used to have a few civvies we’d change to occasionally but it wasn’t worth the effort.

Getting out of camp, you couldn’t look after your clothes anyway, you could only look after your uniforms and take your pride in them

Well there was always one.

Oh that was my husband. Before I married him you know he was always the main one.

Oh yes. Yeah.

Well they had a property in the Wallaloo, just a slightly different district, very close. And they had properties over the back of our paddocks. And used to drive to and fro a lot and there’d always be a wave.

Oh no not until I was in my teens.

When I went back to Maneau.

Well I suppose he didn’t have much say because he was - his father had suffered a heart attack before the war, not long before the war. ’38 I think, but I really didn’t know his father, so that was in the late ’30’s. And then that meant that he had a property, and a mother and two sisters.

And that wasn’t easy those days, so he didn’t have a hope of going to the war really. He just wasn’t in a position where he could go was he?

Well not so much in Melbourne because you’d be able to get home, you used to get leave to get on a train and go home. And then when I was

away, oh not all the time. I got just enough. Because we didn’t get much time to write letters anyway.

They were all single.

Oh no we’d all be in a group

and do things together.

Oh I’d go out to lunches and dinner, my word. That’s why we had the school down in South Brisbane,

Because you’d always have a dinner you see and then go onto your studies.

No they were mainly prisoners at Caulfield.

Well anyone I think. Army, personnel, prisoners of war or,

Yeah yeah.

No I really didn’t know. We went there in the dead of night, sometimes it would be ten thirty at night sometimes it would be two in the morning. They never knew what time, that’s why we lived in the cottages, you never knew what time you’d get a call. It could be six o’clock in the morning and you’d get a whole night’s sleep, it could be any time.

Because they wouldn’t know what time they would be calling,

they’d have to keep the guards on alert. All night doing their job. Oh they just loved doing their surprise attacks, they’d do it around the docks. So everyone didn’t know what hour to expect the inspection I suppose.

Yeah all the time. It was never the same time. Zooming in for the Alfred.

Oh yeah well they liked to include you, they liked to say, “Come”. But you’d probably only be allowed once or twice

to come in. Well not allowed, but you didn’t want to be in other times, you’d been in and saw what was interesting. Or they’d say, “There is something going on here would you care to see it?” You’d go in and maybe you’d be asked for a cup of tea. Sometimes the owner of the business would rush out and say, “Come in come in.” If you were driving to Ballarat or something it was great, they were very always, “Come in driver, bring your driver in”.

Well the one in Brisbane, the coffins, oh I just can’t think of the name of the crowd. I just thought, “Oh I can’t go in, I’m not going in.” You know how you’re just young and you think, “I’m not going to take that in”. Well that was, the person I was driving said, “You must come in,

It’s so interesting. Especially with the Americans; you must come.” Well that was, it was an interest because they had all of these satin little pillows there was nothing ghastly about it at all, this was for the American soldiers. And the coffins were padded in satin, I was an expert in coffins at the time. But I’m not so much now, you put it out of your mind. But that was fascinating; I found it was anyway.

Yes.

They were.

Well I was too. And it was worth going in and seeing it. Oh and then the tannery. They were interesting, everywhere we went was different. And every single thing provided for the army had to be inspected and have a stamp.

Well you’d do all of the uniforms, every single thing. I suppose all of their cooking utensils and their boots. And just name it everything.

Oh I had to drive, my officer would walk, he would go with his armed escorts. Yes you had to drive in and tent would be there and you would be here.

No no I was,

interested to see what went on.

Yes they were mostly harmless. But they were out big-noting, the ones with the tents down and stuffing around and the poor old guards would be working to get the tent erected because they weren’t allowed to get the prisoner wet you see. Oh it was crazy. No I used to enjoy the side play. I didn’t enjoy it; I was interested in the side play. Especially on a stormy night in the middle of the storm you’d get this call and you’d have to go.

Yeah. It sounds frivolous but that was only just [the] sideline of it all.

Deserting.

No they weren’t aware they were there I am sure of it. And what went on at the showgrounds I don’t know. Except I used to get a gun

nearly in my neck driving in the gate asking for the password of the night.

I think yes. I didn’t appreciate that very much but it was harmless, it was interesting wasn’t it?

Oh yes yes. And after that there was a taboo on, no other drivers were allowed to leave the unit, so I escaped.

Well I think we, I was his personal driver.

I didn’t drive for him for so long because I got a transfer to Brisbane. I suppose it would be three months or so but that was very short those days.

It might have been more.

I mean there was always a lot of respect but there’s always very pleasant talk. You know they just wouldn’t get in the car and say, “Move along driver”. It would be, “Oh good morning driver” and you know, “How are you?”, passing pleasantries and it was quite nice.

Yeah, there was a bad drought on, it was a shocking drought in ’45-’46, or it might have been earlier, ’44-’47. And sheep were a shilling a head and all this kind of thing, and I think Brigadier Coffee had a farming background, his parents. Maybe

he didn’t, he’d been in London and through all the military schools. But he was very interested in the Wimmera and up through there, and the name Coffee is renowned through, oh north of where I was, Nhill and up that way. And I don’t know if that formed an easy talk point. But no it was very pleasant.

No it was such a lovely day and he came over here from England, and he was trying to get his pregnant wife back. And I think she had to come back from America and it was quite a task too, she was in the States and he was in a flat down St Kilda Road he had all ready. And we were discussing the wife coming and everybody being all happy,

and I don’t know what it was. He just said to me, “Well are you happy?” Out of all this war talk, it was just chatter. But he didn’t expect a reply, I was supposed to say, “Oh yes I like my job.”

It was either Scots and Menzies wasn’t it?

In Melbourne? I don’t know if I laid eyes on him in Melbourne but in Brisbane

they were frequently seen. Mr MacArthur was always out on the streets and around a hamburger bus that used to be down near George Street. Renowned for its hamburgers. And she had a little boy, four I think he was,

Yes you’d see them around. Because Brisbane is more homely than Melbourne isn’t it?

No it’s good.

Oh I don’t

think so, I think they were - no they didn’t want to go. No, my very best, Joan Olley - I’ve mentioned her before, we went through the driving school and we were still together at Batman Avenue. And then we went to Fitzroy and then we went to army inspection and we were still together - no she had no desire, not the slightest, to go.

I don’t think I asked him; don’t forget that was four years before I was - that was, no, nothing to do with him. I probably did but it was all right.

Well there was no one else in the district was there? No other girls.

Oh no it was quite, I don’t know, I don’t think he would

hear about it.

We weren’t near the men’s camp. Now the girls and the men are together; then it wasn’t, they were entirely separate camps. [We were] on the edge of the men’s camp.

No, no. And we just accepted, even if there had of been a bomb go off I don’t think we would have felt it. Wouldn’t have been - well you just accepted it was war-time.

Oh it was an entirely different set-up in Chermside. Oh we were - oh you mean in

the barracks or - ?

Well we really didn’t see them very much. And I mentioned earlier there were two women a wee bit older than what Joan and I were that were driving; well one of those went on to become an officer and she was one of those in charge of the

Church of England Grammar School that we were moving to. So she was no worry, she used to hide every time she saw me I think.

Oh no, troop trains, because petrol was short you didn’t drive very far personally in those days.

Not going up, no.

Just a mixed group of fellows, soldiers.

No it was very quiet. I think I might have had an American sitting next to me, I don’t know it could have been Dutch or anything I don’t know. But no everyone was very quiet, especially with a woman in the carriage.

That was just to get leave from camp.

Well actually people think that because the Americans were there that you saw them a lot and mixed with them but they seemed to keep a lot to themselves. I know there were Americans in the streets,

but when you are in it you don’t see what people are thinking and seeing on the outside. To us it was all hectic and busy. As I said, there were traffic police in with the lights, and keeping order. And the military police were everywhere, especially the American military police, and they were very strict. But it didn’t really enter, we had our own transport and

we knew exactly what we had to do to get back to the camp. And we weren’t allowed to run loose either. All the leave passes were dated for a certain - ; we were under strict - ; they really, you know, enforced the rules with us. We had to conform, put it that way.

Oh that was more New Guinea. But you wouldn’t go out on your own really. You wouldn’t have an opportunity to either. We were in dormitories and there was a whole group of us, just off hand I couldn’t say how many; six, eight? There’d be at least two dozen

in that dormitory, just there wasn’t much space because there was so many people to fit in. And we all became great friends the people in the dormitories, even if you weren’t working with them. Drivers in that section, but the rest of it would be in all other occupations of the army.

Well there was all the clerical and all the secretaries, wasn’t it mainly?

I guess that’s about all, I don’t know.

Yes, you went in and for your first month or so, rookie school and then you were on a specialist pay. But I don’t know how much it was, whether it was seven shillings or five shillings.

Ordinary soldiers but did the girls, the women get that?

Well I’ve got a pay book here somewhere.

But if you were a driver you went in on specialist rate of pay because drivers didn’t really get promotion, you stayed stationary and so you got the specialist pay. I had an idea that it was seven but I don’t know if that’s right or not.

Oh no, no.

It wasn’t like that at all. And there wasn’t many here in Melbourne either, they were all inspectors, it just so happened that Brigadier Coffee wanted a personal driver and several applied, and another lass, Doris Major (she was a well known tennis player those days), and I were chosen so that was great.

Oh they were free and easy,

they always included you to go into everything and they would always chat to you more. It was a different atmosphere all together.

Oh they’d be so wanting to tell you all the - what are these lovely Queensland nuts? We used to just call them Queensland nuts those days, and one of them had a farm growing that, and there used to be bags of those nuts.

Yes, they were new.

That was all part of it and we’d be interested in his farming and he'd be talking about it; it was just carefree.

In barracks? I can’t remember. We used to get our own lunch and we’d be out for dinner every time we had an opportunity. And breakfast I suppose was just, I don’t know, I guess they were tasty

and wholesome.

No we didn’t have much of the powdered, although powdered egg went with the army breakfast, although you would get a bit of a variety that way. And lots of baked beans,

But we liked them.

No not if you were in barracks, not if you were working..

No we were AWAS.

No we were AWAS.

Oh only friendly rivalry. In Toorak Mansions it was all mixed service women in there. And then one of my best friends was a WAAAF, and

she’s still friends but she gets on your nerves a wee bit. There is a bit of something between it.

Well yes I think that carried through a bit. And she; they thought they were smarter than the army. And we were sure we were smarter than they were with our uniforms. But they came later you see. Oh there was a little bit but we were all best friends underneath it all.

Well I don’t know, some of them just had other ranks. Depends how well they knew them I suppose.

I suppose the officers had more money.

No not really because most of them had boyfriends away, that’s why they joined. No they weren’t husband-hunting. Well not the ones I knew anyway.

Well that came in New Guinea, after the Japanese surrender, then later after that the word came through to our colonel, in charge of the barracks up there, in charge of all of us, that she had a list of the ones under her control; of the girls that their brothers or - it was very well done. I don’t know how the army kept track of us all but they did.

And some of the girls in New Guinea were there because they had a husband [who was] a prisoner of war. Or some were engaged; they were more involved with their friends in the forces. So the night that the colonel, Colonel Spencer Margaret Spencer, received the word of this list she was out around the huts. She was a person we

admired. But she came and broke the news to the girls because we were all waiting to hear. And there was one or two, their husbands had died. There were a couple I suppose in New Guinea with husbands, but they were there. Then she broke the news, and then she went around. And then she came around the huts and she called, and during the night she was up seeing they were right. And then it wasn’t until later that we heard that her own husband

had been reported missing, had been killed. And she just got up and she went around those girls, she was just admirable. So that’s where I was when the war ended and that’s where I was when the news came through about them.

Well the didn’t know did they? Sad. Colonel Spencer’s husband had been a POW for a long time, and that’s why she was appointed to our controller. I suppose they’d have guessed he’d have died. But they really didn’t know.

Oh no they were all very loving. Very

kind and thoughtful to them, you’d do everything you could to make life easy for them But then most of them were on their way home, I think they sent most of them home.

Oh no you shared things, it was very sharing. There was no nastiness or anything with most girls at any time.

If they wanted to, if they felt like it.

Yes and if they were, well Colonel Spencer would always be there.

Oh well, I wasn’t very happy. I was very proud of him but I didn’t worry much until, he did get badly shot up and badly wounded.

And he got his DCM. And you just wished he would come home, you used to feel like that.

I don’t know whether it was Tobruk or El Alamain now, but there is a book out and I believe he was mentioned in that. I must try to get this book. But he didn’t say much about it ever, he was always very withdrawn. It altered his personality completely.

After he got out of the army, he was just shattered I think with what had gone on. He said, “You know they say you can’t dig holes in rocks but I’ll tell you what we made indentations on those rocks.” It was just incredible, they had nothing except this bit of rock that was their space. So that’s about all, I didn’t hear, I never ever heard much about it. But just that he’d - I don’t know.

Well it altered him a lot.

It only gave me more independence and more -

Yes. It did.

No, not when I was in Brisbane. We were up early, and Queensland I think they were opening their offices there [earlier] than nine o’clock and we’d be up and out to work, well we’d be around dropping our officers off by seven thirty. I think things must have opened a lot earlier.

Yes. And then by the

time you went out and if you were going to your classes and what not, you had to be up at the crack of dawn.

In Brisbane to go to shows? Oh yes we used to try to but if we were catching the last train home, supposing it went at twenty past ten, the last train would be ten thirty, they weren’t late, they weren’t midnight ones. So if you were

in a theatre - they had lovely shows in theatres and things - you’d have to get up and rush out. There’d be an exit from the theatre; you’d know who was going to be on the last train because they’d all get up and run. So you had to be down at the town hall to catch the Lutwyche tram, and you couldn’t afford to miss because the Lutwyche tram had to connect with an army transport to carry you out to your trucks to Chermside. So we used to go to

the shows but we’d always have to rush out.

Oh in New Guinea we had a ration and that sort of thing, but it was up to you. Oh when you’re driving, - oh I’m sitting forward again, tell me.

We were allowed two drinks, do you know Brisbane? Petrie Bight?

Right in top of Anne and Adelaide [streets],

right on the water. We were up right in that curve and then opposite us was the old National Hotel so if anyone wanted to take us to lunch we were right next door. And if we did go we were allowed two glasses and no more, you were just not allowed to get in a car if you had had more than two glasses.

Yeah it is isn’t it? I hadn’t thought of that.

Oh yes, you had to up there, you had to be in it.

But not necessarily, you were very restricted the amount you could drink. But it was nice to have a drink.

Not very much, I would have been only it made me too ill.

Yes you got a ration and you had to appear with cigarettes in your hand to get the ration. Because if you didn’t smoke you didn’t get a ration you see, they divided it up amongst the others. So I used to float around with a cigarette,

and have to puff it or you’d have your ration cut out. Because of course they were handy to give out as presents or send overseas to my brother or that type of thing.

No we didn’t, we didn’t have time.

The men may have; we didn’t.

Oh, no jewellery. Well your watch; yes two pieces of jewellery, possibly

a watch and a ring. And make-up, yes you could use your make-up but it had to be very conservative, or they liked it to be very conservative, and no one had the time. By the time you put your lipstick on in the morning and put something it was time to be in that vehicle and off to work.

I don’t think you could buy decent make-up then, I’m sure you couldn’t.

In New Guinea we had very little.

Well I had it, but it was there but I think it was pretty, you didn’t get much choice or anything. Anyway it was nice to have some on, it was quite feminine wasn’t it?

An inch above the collar. I’ve got a photo of myself in New Guinea with my haircut. And it was pretty hard to get time to get a perm or anything. And I think we were younger, and I don’t think we were worried so much because your hair would always have a natural kink or something when you’re younger.

Oh we took a pride in our hairdo’s but there was no time for it. With the uniforms I think it was quite smart to have it an inch above. Although we could roll it, let it grow and roll it.

Yes you could have rolls yes. There you go.

Yes we had weekends off then.

Yes it was, Surfers’ was Surfers’, I’m sure, I’m positive.

I’m sure it was. Surfers’ Paradise Hotel was the only thing there.

What was the one next to it? It’s an S too.

Yes Southport and Surfers’’. Yes Southport was always separate. I’m sure Surfers was always a big hotel, not that big, not compared with nowadays.

We used to drive down there a bit, but that was only business, duty.

And occasionally, I think we had one or two weekends we went down and stayed. But you could always go out on the roads and hitch those days, I know it sounds disgusting but that’s what you did.

Do you?

But you could always do it, you weren’t supposed to when you were in the army and you weren’t supposed to do those things.

But there was always a ride. But not very often, just to say you’d been to Surfers’ that was the main thing.

Definitely, in Brisbane especially.

Oh you just knew, you were told in training. Yeah.

Well when you were in barracks you didn’t have anything else to wear but your uniform and when you were in uniform you were a soldier. You know you were service women and you had to maintain it. And you did, people did. You didn’t ever see sloppy service girls. Really.

Oh there were all sorts.

Oh we didn’t see much of them

we were all too busy.

But they were all there and we knew, you’d know that that was whoever it was.

Well yes they were sailing around weren’t they? They were coming in the Coral Sea

and that. We learnt to, especially if you were in barracks with girls from Townsville, they had a different story altogether to what was in the papers.

Oh well they’d say that, “There are no Japanese planes over Townsville”, and they’d come home on leave or something and they’d say - they had such mixed migrants, didn’t they around Townsville?

Different nationalities especially and some of them were very anti-British and anti-Australian. And they’d light up their cane fields. And they said you could just tell one of the cane fields would go up and then the others, and there’d be this special track, and the Japanese planes would come over and they’d follow those, they’d say they’d lead the way in every time. And little tales you’d hear like that, that were interesting.

Oh well they try to inter them but they’d have to have reasons and there were so many of them up there. It was a different scene around Townsville too.

That’s right.

But I found their tales most interesting.

Oh we didn’t think we’d need that. We thought we’d get all that when we went nursing. It was the last thing we thought of. We thought if we went nursing we’d apply ourselves. And I think we had a feeling if we did well with our secretarial studies we’d get on well with those too.

But I don’t know if they were offering that at the Brisbane Tech. at the time, otherwise we’d have thought about it wouldn’t we?

It wasn’t every night, I don’t know how many times, at least twice a week.

Civilians, it wasn’t an army.

Oh yes but they were only too willing, they liked that, encouraged it.

Yes. Well we didn’t pay so I guess they - I don’t know who paid for it.

Yeah but that was all encouraged, anything for learning. But

they had different ones. H.D. Black he used to go around giving lectures or tutorials or whatever they call them nowadays. And we were encouraged to go to all that type of thing. You know we learnt about the government, I’m sure it was all helpful.

Yes but they were all fly-by-nights too don’t forget. They weren’t staying.

And coming from Victoria, when Victorians were passing through, there were quite a number of young men in the district had enlisted and they would say, “Oh well Margaret Anderson is at Petrie Bight and she is at so and so (the address)”.

And they were all in camp, and what did they call it when they were passing through waiting for their troop trains?

Yeah they were all in these staging camps, and sometimes, you know when they get them tropical downpours and there was no way the troop trains could get over the flooded rivers. So these boys would be stranded there for a week or two, and they’d give them some money and they’d think, “Oh well we’ll call at the garage”, and I’d come

in from duty. And Sally Fendleson was there and Eila, the lass I joined up with, was there and they all had their friends calling in. And we went out for dinners, but they weren’t love affairs.

That was quite frequent, there was Frank Newall down the road from

where I lived, in staging camp. They were no more a love affair than a fly to the moon. But we’d always go out to dinner and they would bring friends with them. I quite enjoyed it, and they would bring news from what was happening in Victoria. There was quite a bit of that going on.

But if they had returned from overseas or returned from somewhere they’d

say a little bit, we’d have a chat.

Oh no, they’d tell you about other people. And this Frank Newall would have news; he was another local boy. And they’d say, “Poor old Keith, he was a dispatch rider and they’d just have to get this message through, just have to. So [they’d] call out, wouldn’t be able to nominate someone; they’d have to call for volunteers,

because they’re sending them out to their death see. And every time dear old Keith would land up, ‘I’ll do it, I’ll get there’. So he’d get on his motor-bike and they’d all be in the desert looking out waiting for Keith to come back. They’d say, ‘Poor old Keith, he’s had it this time.’ And then,” they said, “lo and behold, way on the horizon they’d see the motorbike coming and bursts of smoke and Keith had arrived, he was back.” And this type of thing they’d chat on about.

Which was always nice and entertaining to hear.

Well it wasn’t, when did Singapore come into it with [Lieutenant General] Bennett

Well all of those things made an impression, they really did and Pearl Harbour. Yes, no I really think they were.

No, no I don’t think so. I did worry about my brother because sometimes he was in hospital and was not well and had been shot up and had had a hand grenade in the back, and it was only his shovel that had saved him.

And he had scars from where they had burst on the shovel. And oh, you know all this type of thing. Well yes you did think about it.

Yes it was, especially with; he was in the 9th Division D Company 2/24 and they were in the news quite a lot.

Then you wouldn’t hear for a long while and you’d think, “Oh my” but you did realise it.

Well the nursing; I had this obsession. So when we found that you could get out of the army to go nursing, I thought, “This is a big moment”. So anyway when we didn’t get a reply I thought, “Oh, well”; we quite

enjoyed our driving, but I don’t know.

Well you had a feeling that you should be getting on, the war would end, just get on and do something. We were beginning to realise that there was going to be an end to it.

Yes.

Not really, no, because we had heard that

when they were - you know the battle where the Japs turned around, we were shown occasional films of some of these battles because we were in the army.

Oh I wouldn’t know, when I do try people just don’t listen to it. When I say I saw films and they just didn’t want to hear it.

I’m sure we did.

Just shots of the odd ship in it. I’m sure we did.

Oh well everyone was informed of that weren’t they?

Yeah, I’m sure. If you look for it you’ll hear it I think. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure.

Because my brother came back from the Middle East and then he had very little leave and then he was off to New Guinea, you remember they put the 9th Division in because the others weren’t winning the war, and they were winning so naturally I was following.

And I met him in Brisbane one time and he looked so shrunken and so ill, yes I was aware.

End of tape

Oh I don’t know you had your eggs and your butter, I don’t know what else was rationed. Sugar, sugar was rationed but you would still be able to buy your large bags of sugar.

Well fortunately I went into the army and I don’t think it really hit until ’42, had it in clothing?

Yeah because I don’t remember, until I got out of the army. And then I was waiting to get married, and stayed in Sydney for a year as I said, because we didn’t have any clothes, see we had to earn money or something to get some nice - we

only wanted decent stuff.

Not that, we really did. And then when I was about, just before I was married of course I wanted to go shopping and do lots of things and that was when the rationing, the rationing was still in so it was quite a while. So that was very hard. But then perhaps some people were not using

their ration cards so that was good.

I didn’t have anything to swap with. They just, well when they heard I was to be married and I had, well they were all coupons, every single thing, so this lady gave me her card.

I don’t know I really don’t.

But I did get what I wanted.

Must have been because that was ’48 I think when I was married. Yes it was. And then after that it suddenly lifted, not too soon though, it was quite a while.

I don’t think they rushed anywhere, I think they were just pleased

to be able to go along and buy what they want to when they wanted to.

Not that I can remember. I think we were just going to work and we were flatting,

we would be so pleased to get away from army rations wouldn’t we? But we’d make do. It wasn’t hard to make do, not when you’re young and you’re not fussed and you haven’t got a family or commitments; I don’t think it was hard.

Yeah, well it wasn’t the biggest of your worries was it?

Well when we were in Queensland of course

we had our midday meals out. And we’d just run, even a pineapple or something like that. Just to have fruit for lunch, it was such a novelty to have all this fruit that wasn’t imported into Melbourne. And we had marvellous mangoes and all sorts of luscious we hadn’t even heard of down south. So that was quite a treat in a way. And we had simple

needs I think. And for breakfast, all I can remember was we had very good breakfasts, well, filling breakfasts. They were probably beans and powdered eggs and powdered milk and powdered potatoes. But it was a little bit more lavish than New Guinea I think, well more changes in it.

We didn’t have bully beef and biscuits so much but we had monotonous food.

And sometimes it was hard to come by because the ships began, as the Japs moved north the ships began bypassing Lae quite a lot. To try and get the needs up and the head of the army served.

I can remember someone talking about ‘fish, fish, fish’ but I don’t know. The American ships would

still call in occasionally I think. And our colonel would go down and ask for some nice fresh potatoes, and we’d get supplies that way. And they were quite liberal I think with what they handed out. So that got us along.

No and I don’t think they were anorexic either, they were just - well we had to eat what we were served or go without. There were no shops, or anywhere. One night they were giving us a treat and they gave us tinned peaches and cream in a tin.

Yeah and that was a big big treat.

Well everyone seemed to think it was. That didn’t happen very often, so the rations were pretty much the same, they were pretty monotonous. But that was a treat.

Oh no you needed to maintain your weight, and even Brisbane was pretty hot to us, coming from down south. It really was.

The heat was just, even up further north in New Guinea. But no, if we did lose too much weight they had a rest camp at Salamaua, but that’s New Guinea we’re talking about now. And we’d be sent up there for a week to pick up.

Yeah I got a fortnight because I used to work at night

Oh it was just superb, beautiful.

No I think it had been an old guest housie thing.

There was nothing much on the isthmus except this rest place.

Well there is an old mangled - I suppose it had been a swimming pool or bath or something before the war, that was very primitive. But that was all mangled in there. And then you could go for a walk down to the isthmus: it was narrow where the rest camp was and then there was this block on the end and you could wander through that, little narrow paths. And sometimes there’d be a great big cobweb reaching

the width of the path and there’d be a bird-eating spider in the middle. So you would detour around that, especially if you had guests. And you’d go along and interspersed along the way there’d be the Japanese old pill-boxes and that sort of thing. And they were quite interesting, funny little narrow things.

Oh just slapped together with timber, in amongst, you wouldn’t notice them unless you looked for them. And because the Japanese were not very tall. Well not those days; they might be

now, but those days they were small. Oh they’d be about the height of that.

Yeah something like that. And then they had a little bit on top again and they’d walk in there and perhaps where their head would be there would be a bit more shelter, maybe. And maybe it’d just be a rectangle and quite narrow, not too narrow.

Oh yes it was all horrible, decaying and cobwebby, you didn’t go into them, they were just narrow ones situated in the jungle.

Oh yes there was nothing on that end. But the other, the mainland and going off into the ranges and mountains they had a cemetery there, but that was for our troops.

And the troops further up north. Later they moved it all to Lae and Moresby. The war cemeteries. But at that time there was a war cemetery at Salamaua.

Oh just, yeah. If you were there for a week it wasn’t very long to see anything so you’d skirt by it. You didn’t go in there really unless you knew somebody

who’d be buried there or who had died, then you might go looking. But we didn’t really, no we didn’t go in the cemetery that much.

Oh I can’t, it had the monuments on it, I’m sure it did. Most of us would go and look for names, there must have been names engraved there, mustn’t there? They must have been very busy.

I can’t remember most of them. I just remember it had about this high, and perhaps

I don’t know what was in the centre. It wouldn’t be pebbles would it up there? Could be anything. I don’t know. I would like to know.

Yeah I did go back after the war, but I went [on a] different trip to that.

Oh there were old wrecks. Over, which way would we face?

Not the way facing Lae, but when you went around the isthmus and around the back and the big bay there were wrecks there.

Mmm. Of the Japanese ship; I could have told you the names once but not now.

Oh they were right up on the beach, washed up there. You could wander in and have a look if you wanted to, but they were just full of coal and debris.

Yeah they were.

Well it’d be pretty messy and pretty wrecky, well

they were pretty but it would be messy and wrecky and the water would be lapping around it up to a certain height in the morning tide so we didn’t go very far, and if you did all you found was all this coal.

Must have been. They did have their names on them. Two or three I could think of but I’ve forgotten.

Yeah two or three.

No I don’t think so, there may have been but the Australians came in after the Japs. It was rather narrow and they’d be possibly cleaning up by then.

Oh yes the Japanese had been there.

Yes it was lovely, and a pink frangipani grew on the beach, just on the verge of the beach. Only one frangipani and it was pink. We didn’t see many pink frangipanis in those days so of course we thought it was beautiful.

No the natives do, the men did it. If they were looking for a wife they’d wear a flower. I don’t know what they’d say if they saw us.

Oh no it wasn’t for us I don’t think, but if we had been wearing them I don’t know what they would have thought. You could go for lovely walks and see the different trees. These native kinds of tree, like a coconut tree, what do they call the paw paws? All the different names.

Yeah papaya and something with a C. That’s there tree and everybody respects it,

so when you walk through on the narrow tracks, and you find, or even a pineapple in a box you know with a frame around it, we were always told not to touch them, they belonged to someone. Every tree belonged to the person who had found it,, and everyone respected it and you didn’t touch the fruit on it. That was in Salamaua.

Yeah it was gorgeous. And they had little groups, you know the natives, there were very few natives around in Lae or Salamaoa, very few.

But when we were on our walks sometimes, and one time they were having a dreadful squabble. So someone asked them what they were squabbling about it. And they said somebody had found this tree and they had put all little sharp sticks in the sand and if you walked on them you got a foot full of splinters. And they were having this big argument over who put all these little twigs in. I remember that vividly because they were really cross,

but they were not to touch the fruit see? They were punished if they did.

Wouldn’t it be painful, all in their bare feet.

No I don’t think they were working at the camp and you didn’t have much conversation with them. Very little.

Oh no

it was possibly sent over from Lae the furnishings I think.

Yeah we didn’t mind, that was our lot. But it was very nice, and the food was good, I suppose it was the same as Lae only a smaller crowd, I can’t remember how many girls went but not very many at a time.

Oh yes, oh yes. You weren’t allowed to be with the men.

Oh no.

Inferior beings.

Women.

Ok it would now. But that really was quite pleasurable.

We were saying about the weight, if you were losing weight or getting thin or suffering from the heat, they’d have a week over there. But because I worked such long hours I got a fortnight.

That was lovely. I remember it vividly now, it was just delightful.

Oh not that much. We used to have to make our own bathers. You know, have scraps of material, our bikini’s.

Oh hand-stitch them, yes cut them. Oh we had so much fun making them to go to Salamaua.

I don’t know.

I had two or three sets.

Well I don’t remember where the material came from.

Oh one or two.

Oh just pretty little pieces of floral, they weren’t too hard to cut out and stitch up. Didn’t matter how rough the stitching was, they still held together. Just little tops.

Oh it was and you could run around and be free.

Oh no. There were no shops or nothing. Couldn’t buy it.

I didn’t see an American in - we saw some American officers, engineers. I love working, I love my engineers. And they would come up into the office because they were stores, you know.

Everything went, it was a bit like army inspection. Anything of machinery or whatever and equipment would go through the Major Hellsham. So the only time we saw the Americans, were the American officers who were coming to pay their respects to our major. Our chief storeman. And they’d be in and chatting to him and around about. And

oh they were very much on business. You know, very superior.

They were.

Which one?

Well, we didn’t have bedspreads for our stretchers. And our colonel somehow or other, she must have had them sent up from down south,

I was going to say but that’s Australia isn’t it? And then some had parachute silk. Some made their bedspreads out of parachutes, the material. But in our hut, we won the prize for the best hut because we had the two dressmakers in our hut, both Western Australia girls and somehow or other they got some pretty florals.

If I look hard I think I could still find my army bedspread. It would be packed away in storage in the country. But it really was well made, pretty little dainty design. With flowers, oh it was quite nice.

And there was, they didn’t have a mirror, and so they said, “The best hut, the neatest and best can keep the mirror”, so we had this one six foot mirror in our hut,

held up against one of the partitions, oh it was great.

Oh yes that was the idea, they would come and march through and we’d all pretend they weren’t there.

There was plenty to keep morale up. If you weren’t working every second night or three nights a week or something there was plenty of things. I didn’t have much time to attend those things but I liked the work I was doing. I preferred that a lot of the times to whatever, you knew exactly where you were going. And you’d be brought home in a car, it was good. But they had notices up in the orderly room and so many girls would be invited, so many girls could go to other units where the men were putting on a -

but I didn’t manage to get to those. But one night there were twenty-two names to go down so that was rushed. And they used to go down to Lae base; Lae base is a bit of an entertainment centre. And they had lots of drama, and Michael Pate, heard of him? Well he was there and quite a few well known actors and actresses came later on had been in that drama group in Lae.

Well known names, but they were there. And a friend of mine Sally Fendleson, she used to do drama while I worked. And she was,

No. ‘Taming of the Shrew’ she was Katherine and she went on, when she got out of the army she took a drama course in Sydney to go and do that. So there was lots of entertainment at Lae base. And then we used to have great entertainment in our Gregory Hut.

Well they had music, they had bands. They had George Wallace Junior, I don’t know if you had heard of George Wallace, be pretty old. But that was his son, George Wallace Junior used to come. And Margaret Mead the anthropologist.

Well she used to wander in and out, she’d be living amongst the villagers and doing her anthropology thing. And then when

oh she’d come wandering into our little settlement and give lectures and have little talks.

Well I thought they were fantastic.

Because she was quite middle-aged, well telling us all the habits of, her life amongst these people. She really liked the New Guineans.

I don’t know. I don’t know what she did. I won’t go there

I don’t know.

No she just lived amongst the New Guineans, and oh there was some silly tales, I don’t know.

Studying their habits and they way they lived and the; you know there was the men’s hut and the ladies’ hut. I’ve forgotten it all now, until I talked to you, I haven’t discussed it with anyone ever since. And their habits, but

that was what she liked, that was her life. Their foods, so that was her privilege to do what she wanted wasn’t it?

No she just looked like a sedate middle-aged suburban lady. I’m not sure if she was American or not. Is she American?

She wrote lots of books I know. But that was fascinating, that was another interest.

Not that I know of.

No it was too hot.

We did plenty of that before we went. Oh we did the jungle, we were pretty good.

Well we did all of our jungle training, we marched our six miles a day and we did exercises.

No this was at Fraser’s Paddock. We would have been just as happy at Canungra but this was in Fraser’s Paddock at Ashgrove. Have you been there?

And our whole life was just going to bed getting up exercising, throwing bean bags, I liked the bean bags. All the things to make us alert and bright.

Well I don’t remember much about it, except that you had to be pretty quick and alert and when you got down to the end you had to run down the other end. It was great.

Oh whatever our instructor told us.

And then we used to go to St Lucy, you know the university? Well it wasn’t finished then, being built. And we used to go, everything would stop work then and we used to go over to their great big playing fields and play, what was it? Like cricket, ladies’ cricket.

No it’s not heard of now. It was just another name. And bowling,

so we had some of the leading bowlers you know, oh I just used to drop the bat and run. But that was fun. They had air raid shelters all through this great park, playing field. And of course the grass was this high, grows like that quick and lively. So when you were running down to catch the ball you’d go head first into an air raid shelter. You wouldn’t know it was there, it’d all

be covered with grass. That wasn’t very nice.

Could have been; we didn’t see any.

Six mile.

Well they did give you outfits for different occasions. I don’t know what we would do for that, whether we would still be in our civvies, our shirts and skirts or

what we had.

Oh no I’ll have to show you some photo’s of it later. But no we had our safari suits, you know our safari jackets and our pants and our woollen socks. And boots, we were never out of boots for twelve months, I don’t think we took shoes up there.

The woollen socks for the heat, with the perspiration they were the only things that -

and I believe they still wore them in Timor.

The woollen socks.

No we were very good. We had plenty of pairs issued. That was only because the pure wool was more comfy, they didn’t have synthetics then.

Yes. So we had the boots and the woollen socks and the gaiters and the trousers and the safari jacket. We had our big hats, our Aussie hats

and berets, same as the East Timor only we had navy blue berets.

New Guinea was an issue that was completely different. But in Brisbane we had had our hats doctored which we weren’t allowed to do.

Oh no it wasn’t a scandal. The Melbourne girls, we always had to be different, the southern girls. So we’d go to Parks the tailors and we’d have a wider band put around our hat. Oh they were smart, and they’d repress it and do it. And when we’d be on inspection they’d stop and look you up and down and then they would see several other hats the same

and they’d walk on, they never ever discovered the secret of our hats. They just thought they were Melbourne hats and not Brisbane. But that really smartened us up.

Just smarter.

Oh no we liked our uniform, it was only the hats we tampered with I think.

Oh no we weren’t allowed out like that.

If you didn’t fit the sizes, they wouldn’t issue them. You’d go and have them, there were places that made them specially.

Yeah we were but we all looked smart, we tried to.

Well I suppose I was earlier in the piece and

and we had our uniforms first and we didn’t even compare them, we didn’t bother. Because that was it. But it’s just amazing now I’ve got some WAAAF friends and they thought they - I just look at them, I don’t even bother to hear it. But they really think, they were comparing uniforms, but we didn’t do that because we were the first there and we didn’t have to bother.

Look out she’ll knock on the door.

Oh I don’t think so. There was a bit of just, no I don’t think so. We didn’t overlap; everyone had a job to do and it was different, you know. You knew exactly where you stood. There was no worrying about what anyone else was doing.

Oh the navy were very smart. The women’s navy were very smart. I think the air force really but they were all a different - they weren’t meant to be soldiers.

All the air force, but they were different, even the air craftsman. You see they weren’t meant to go out and slog it, they were a different type. They were

all a different mould somehow.

I don’t know. I think I didn’t care. I was ahead of them and I’d think, “Oh who bothers?” But you didn’t see much of the air force about I don’t think.

Oh we didn’t see anyone but soldiers in New Guinea.

Not that we were aware.

I didn’t bother looking at them. They were soldiers. That was their uniform, that was their look, that was it. And the engineers especially, they were all very nice types.

Jungle, oh there was the isthmus, the end of the isthmus. Oh just that it was totally different to Lae. Oh they would go out fishing at night in their Lakatois [boats], the natives would go out. And they would have their little bunches of leaves

about so big, and they’d light them, something would burn and they’d be waving it over the water, and the fish would come up, that was their bait. And then another one would be there with a spear and spear this beautiful fish.

Oh it was just fascinating looking out over this great big bay. Seeing all these glittering lights over it was magical really. With the moon low in the sky, it was unreal. And then they would pull up on the beach and light a fire and cook them. Sometimes we’d go nearby them and see

them there with their fire and the fish. I suppose they had to take some home with them but they looked as though they used to pull up and have a supper or something.

Never, no. We wouldn’t have been allowed to mix.

Well I was just wondering that, but I wonder if we had fish meals, because they were always fishing, and they had their way of throwing detonators and things the Australians.

You’d think they’d catch plenty of fish wouldn’t you? Because the water’s so, I thought, “Why didn’t we have fish?” But I can’t remember.

Not Salamaua, no, no. Around Lae. No Salamaua was really quite a distance across the water from Lae, but that really was an event.

I didn’t see it, no I didn’t go to these - I went to a few things when I was free but I really wasn’t out and about. Everywhere you went you had to have armed

escorts. So many girls in a group and we’d have to have two armed escorts. About six girls in a group was it? I forgot.

Well I suppose anything could break out couldn’t it?

Oh no not really. On the water; I suppose if we were going to Salamaua and back, all craft had to be off the water by

six p.m. You were not allowed out after that time, you’d be shot at. But one night I was in a boat, and it ran out of petrol, it really truly did. I can’t remember how we got home, but we were all really alarmed, floating around bobbing out there. Not so much that we were out of petrol, but they said they could fire shots at us, that was more the alarm. So they must have got a message out somewhere to come and help us.

I don’t know how on earth we got home. So when we walked in the orderly room we really wondered what was going to happen to us. And they said, “Oh for heaven’s sake, we were so worried about you. We’ve heard everything now; get off, that’s the last story, just go to bed.”

Yeah that’s what they said. “We’ve heard it all, a boat on the water running out of petrol!”

So that was fun; it wasn’t fun until it was over and then we probably laughed with relief.

No, we thought the shots would come from the orderly room, we weren’t worried about the water.

Exactly the same.

Oh they’d look to. Oh some of the sergeants were the nicest.

And the sergeant majors they always, well that’s why they were chosen because they had that air about them and the build. It wasn’t because they had much impact, it was just that they looked as though they would have an impact I think. I think that’s why they chose them

Well they didn’t have anything to get after us for so,

Never had time.

Getting up and going to work and coming home.

No they didn’t. And the ones in New Guinea, well they wouldn’t have been there if they had been ones who wouldn’t fall into order.

Well yes the major came and had a letter from the

barracks asking did he have any girls he’d recommend. So he called us and asked us and we went.

Oh the others didn’t want to go.

No it was just that we were going and that was it, we were still all friends.

Yes. Had to go and pass all of these tests, with our typing which we were very proud of.

Oh I can’t remember, if I say twenty-two that’s out of my head. How many would you have to do a minute?

Neither do I.

It’s a long time, I haven’t touched a typewriter since I don’t think.

Oh filing, oh just being able to deal with the situation.

Yes but don’t ask me now.

Well we did so much of it, but I didn’t ever touch it again.

Taking down yes. Just all clerical skills and well you’d be lectured a bit on what to say and how to handle situations. I can’t remember now.

There were no roads no. And we were

only two of us chosen to go. I think there was a girl from Western Australia, I’m not sure. Two southerners, Sally and myself; we were both in the one unit. So that made it easy, we stuck together. But there was very few drivers. There was nowhere to go. You were in a centre, I think General Blamey’s house was there,

and the only asphalt road, or bitumen then it was, went from his house, well it wasn’t a house, just a building, to the airport. There was a road that went straight from his front door to the airport.

Well it had to be didn’t it? If he had to get out in a hurry and all the rains in the tropics, that was all in order. And he had his bungalow thing, and he used to come and go.

Oh very few, you were allowed two, say a picture and a clock or something. You were allowed two items, pick. And in our hut they had a shelf running the length of the

our rooms. Anyway in the store they had, they were taking make-up and, just a few personal items but very little because there were no shops whatsoever. And that made it very easy too, not to, you didn’t require a lot of things. And then our clothes were all packed,

our uniforms that we were wearing there, they were all packed and stored in Brisbane until we came home. We were issued with all of our tropical gear which was the safaris and our pants. I think we had a little cape sort of rain coat. That just folded up to nothing and we just pulled it out when it rained, that had a little pet name.

Oh it was a funny name I can’t remember. But it was

No I can’t.

Some funny pet name. It was very easy though to make a decision because you just couldn’t take very much. And then our boots were our only, I think we might have had two pairs of boots, but it was very easy packing because all of your precious things were left behind.

Well you had your dead meat ticket [identity tag] around your neck the whole time.

Yes it didn’t come off. It should be around somewhere I don’t know where. And you weren’t allowed jewellery, you were allowed two items of jewellery, a ring or a watch or something. But no one wanted it anyway, and especially in Lae it was far too hot to be bothered with any jewellery. But you could [take] your St. Christopher’s or lucky

charms, so long as they didn’t show. You’d have them around your neck.

Oh I tried them all out, different ones.

Oh no, I think St Christopher’s out of date isn’t it? Oh we all used to love our St Christopher.

So there you go.

Well we heard all about it, but sometimes when you’re in a thing you don’t realise it do you. And also they were very protective of us, especially the girls in barracks. If you were in barracks and you were going home at night or you were going to a hostel well you’d see far more but the barracks girls were really, they were very protective toward us.

No. No we didn’t really, we didn’t have time.

By the time you travelled to and fro and you did your laundry and you flew around there wasn’t any spare time. And then went to every show in town, there wasn’t any spare time.

We had them in New Guinea, they used to cut the grass, you know it would grow so quickly, grow overnight really. And but we were right in the jungle, so there was a work force all of the time cutting the grass and doing some of the chores I suppose. And Japanese prisoners were there quite often doing their work.

And Australians would be guarding them. But we were just, we had tracks between the two huts, not very wide ones. And perhaps if you came on one along the side you were trained that you just walked past, you completely ignored the fact that they were there. Just pretended you didn’t see or hear. And if you did happen to come eye to eye you just continued on just the same.

So we were so well trained that if any events did arise it didn’t matter. And they knew their place because they had guards watching them.

Not really, or if you did hear it you just - well perhaps there were underprivileged Japanese who were like that. I don’t know, but they weren’t all like that were they?

And then I had a brother had been in Japan.

No this was when he came from Tobruk he went over there, had short leave and went up to Japan. Because the Japanese were knocking our men about and they decided they needed men with more experience to go up and fight them.

No this is during the war.

He talked about the Japanese a bit. No they didn’t say they were all short. But we imagined, I think we all took it for granted that they were all short and scruffy. But they weren’t really.

Oh not around the barracks, they had guards all around them. Oh I suppose they could, but not where we were concerned, it wouldn’t be any of our business if they were.

But the only time the Japanese came to our notice, that we took any notice of them, we had all of these levered huts, you know with the low louvre out over the garden. Well we made the garden but the louvre would come out, well we’d come home at lunch time, it was, oh so hot in the middle of the day.

So we’d fling our safaris off and stretch on our stretchers and the mosquito nets would be wound up for the day up top, they were only let out at six o’clock. So we were sprawled out and one of the Australian guards wondered where the Japanese were all missing at lunch times. And he couldn’t work this out, so he hid in the bushes somewhere and watched what was going on. And they were down underneath the bottom louvre, they’d go and install themselves there, and we would come home

at lunch and they were harmless, they couldn’t hurt. Imagine if a Japanese did get in a hut with twenty odd girls he wouldn’t have got out alive I don’t think. So that got reported and they hauled them out and they got in trouble. I suppose they never ever came to barracks again. But that was the only thing.

Wasn’t it ever. They were just fortunate Australians were guarding them and they weren’t shot. So there you go that’s the only story

about the Japanese that I know and it was harmless.

Oh it wasn’t a garden it was just a piece of dirt on the edge that we tried to scratch up and grow things in.

No the tomato plants grew about this high with, well now they buy those tiny wee thumb nail tomatoes, but that’s all we could grow. In the heat they just went, well a few things grew. But not much but we did try.

We didn’t have much more time did we? Well we had to keep it all neat and tidy and look nice. There’d be a paw paw tree growing or there’d be something coming up growing.

No we didn’t really. We didn’t need to. We had a beer ration for a while

but we decided it wasn’t worth walking down to have our glass of beer so we started saving our bottles. And then we had a party one night and the officers found out; no more beer and no more parties. We had to go down to Q [Quartermasters] store somewhere and drink our beer. I forget how many glasses we were allowed but my friend and I decided that wasn’t worth walking for so we didn’t go.

What with all of the bottles of beer?

It was harmless,

absolutely harmless. But just because our hut had decided that we would save up and have a party, everyone thought it was very wicked, but it wasn’t.

Yeah.

Oh how would the fellows get in there? They couldn’t climb the barbed wire fence. Or whatever it was.

No they had razor wire all inside.

Our theme song was don’t fence me in. Used to sing that day and night I think. They had guards on the gate they couldn’t have got in, no way.

I know but I can’t, would it be ‘macky’? I don’t know.

I don’t know, I suppose

we had all kinds of nicknames but I don’t know what they’d be.

Oh yes we all had pet names.

Maggie, which I loved.

Yes Sally was, her name was Edith Heather and she got Sally. And our names still stick to us. To this day.

Oh I don’t know. There just used to be a song about ‘Sally of our Alley’, and she really was an outrageous lady. My best friend, but she was full of fun and personality. She’s probably singing the song one day in a high pitched soprano voice, which was ghastly. I think that’s probably how she got it, she sung the song and it stuck.

I can’t remember it. We could find it somewhere I suppose. But it really was one of the tunes of the time.

Oh they never insulted them. Oh I have to start thinking. Macca, she became matron of the Princess Alexander in Brisbane, she was a Queenslander. And she went on and did her nursing and she became the matron. And my nickname used to be Maggie.

Well there wouldn’t be a dust-up but Queenslanders would sit up and absorb everything you said. And really, and then after a while they decided they liked us so all was well. But they are a different race, well they were.

I loved them. Oh I can pick a Queenslander anywhere still.

Oh they’re - you can pick all the states by the different wording and different little ways. South Australians had a very Britishy accent those days, maybe it’s gone now. And the Western Australians were the crows? Who were they?

Yeah well they were different,

Who were the sand-gropers? Yeah they had all these names for them, that’s where they got them from I’m sure. But the Queenslanders, they were down to earth. They really were, outspoken and you know exactly where you stand, lots of fun.

I don’t think swearing was as popular then as it is now, we had no desire to swear.

But I was so strictly brought up I wouldn’t.

Yes. More or less. I hate to think.

I think most of them, I think swearing wasn’t acceptable, I really think, except just the common old silly word here and there.

You know the old Australian adjective, but apart from that I don’t think they bothered much. It wasn’t rife the way it is today. Amongst the women.

Oh no, sort of.

We didn’t want to be but that was a fact of life at that time. Your behaviour was conditioned by that era wasn’t it?

Well that was our lot and we knew it.

Well you didn’t realise it, because that was the situation of the time. But I notice we tossed it all up very quickly. Began to stand on our own two feet.

Yeah but I think it

made you feel you did belong as well as anybody else. You had a right to say what you thought, I’m sure it brought all of that out in us.

And we loved the feeling, especially the heavy trucks, it was great. You’d feel you were in charge and you were in command. We were really proud.

Well I only drove a big truck once and I did a wheelie and went out.

In driving school we had to get our licences, same as the men. I just can’t quote the different licences we had to get but I’ve got them all written down somewhere. You had to get that to pass your test. So we used to go out

along the narrow roads out in the Yarra Valley and out around there. We used to have to turn around on a narrow road in this heavy vehicle and reverse and get around. And after a while we were brought into the city for experience. So we were driving along, and we had to go down to Spencer Street [in] five o’clock traffic; that seemed to be a favourite for the men drivers taking us down there. And I decided that I had

been driving all of the afternoon, I suppose I was doing my test, driving us into the city in this traffic, and I decided I had had enough, I wasn’t going. And then I did a wheelie around the policeman in the middle who used to stand there and whistle all of these tunes. I did a wheelie around him and then went out. And then my instructor said, “Where are you going?” I said, “I’m just not going down there, I don’t feel like it, I can’t go in there.” And he said, “Well that’s the best thing you can do isn’t it? Do a wheelie and come out.”

No I wasn’t, I just didn’t want to go down there. In a great big truck and a busload of girls in the back and taking you down Spencer Street; it just wasn’t on. But now I don’t think they’d be allowed down there in the traffic, a truck at that hour of night.

Perhaps he was just experimenting how far he could go.

Yeah but I didn’t drive any trucks after I did my course. Yeah I was really elated when we got all of these licences, it was terrific. We had little amphibious jeeps that used to be made in Geelong, by Ford I suppose. And the war lane rallies, they used to have to have an event of some kind for the war and they were held down [at] Port Melbourne beach, so we had to go to Geelong and get the amphibious jeeps and come up

and on the Sunday war lane rally. There were six of us chosen, and we went out in the bay, and drove, there was nothing to taking, to charging, getting off the ground and into the water. It was quite simple really. And we were so proud of ourselves, we really were. No one had ever seen an amphibious jeep before and we were wheeling up and down and then a boy and a father’s racing boat I suppose came along and whizzed up and down and caused waves and

confusion and chaos; nearly everyone’s jeep stopped, but we got out.

It was. Yeah it made you feel terrific because we had never seen an amphibious jeep before either.

Oh haven’t you seen one?

Oh it was just a car with a little, not a yachtie, what would it be?

Just a built up boat. All steel and four wheels.

Not very high. You’d hop up in them quite easily hop in and out.

More boat-shaped than like a jeep really. They’re big ones now. The amphibians. But these were just the first of the lot.

Yeah six of us were chosen.

Oh it was great.

Port Melbourne.

Yes they used to turn out badly to see it all.

Oh it was quite exciting.

Flavour of the month. It was fun, but we just got pride in our doing it I think.

No they’d have loud speakers, and some would be marching. We’d probably lead a march down to the beach and the crowds would be in the city

streets, lining each side. Yes they used to turn out to see the war lane rallies.

Housewives again.

Yeah someone was saying the other day that there were very few women drivers in the army, well we didn’t think so, we didn’t realise at the time. But then someone

said, “Well there were very few men too, even the younger men didn’t have vehicles of their own.” The father would have a car, and then it all came into its own. Some of the mothers would be driving I suppose but when you look back not many of them did have a car, and then the Depression was there and it is amazing to think how it has grown hasn’t it?

I drove a tank up in Lae.

4th Field, but that was only fun.

I did know but I have forgotten the name. We went out to see this 4th Field Regiment and they had all of their rows, the engineers were in charge of it all.

We went out there and they said, “Hop up and have a drive”, and I got in and they said, “Go on, take her off”. And all these gears - have you been in a tank? There is rows and rows. So I said, “Well what would you suggest?” And they said, “Pull that one.” I did and away we went. I think I had to pull two. So that was my only time in a tank.

I think it just took me.

It was only a fun game. But that was the only driving I did up there. But I didn’t expect the thing to go I must have just touched the right gear or something and away we went.

Oh it was and you couldn’t hurt the tank.

No. There you go.

Oh just the cars and utilities. But I mainly drove a utility in Brisbane, a ute.

Because there was always something to carry and somewhere to go, and you could fit spare parts in the back of a ute.

Yes we had to do that to be a driver.

We’re supposed to but our cars were so good and so reliable. The

instructors would do all of these faults. In the mornings, you’d go to get your car and you had to work out [what] was wrong and how to fix it and what to do. And we did it, we really did learn but don’t ask me, in the modern cars you couldn’t do that.

Yes it would be awful.

When it was

our turn to have a day off yes. We were all in our overalls and our capos and change of clothes and water-proof boots and get into it and do it.

I couldn’t do it now.

No didn’t think about it. Dispatch riders did that, that’s all

they did.

No not then, there might be now, I don’t know. They wouldn’t want dispatch riders now though would they, do it all by -

Oh yes we were all good friends, we all still meet.

I think there is a little pamphlet out there on the bench came in the mail today from the Queensland lot. We’re all still in touch and we had reunions, go to Perth; Gold Coast was the most popular I think. Sydney used to be very popular but then somehow or other you drop out, you know you get older and go less. Adelaide didn’t have

a reunion. They always considered they were the superior ones.

I think so.

Oh no, they were all very very nice charming girls but I think they always thought they were a bit of a cut above the other states. So that’s why I follow Adelaide and its politics and everything very intensely and I think they’re still playing; I don’t think they’ve come down to earth yet.

Oh I think there is quite a lot of bonding, we don’t agree on lots and lots of things but if one was in trouble well the other would run all of the way to get there I am sure of it.

Yeah I do. I do because even

the WAAAF down the street - she was air force and I was army - I mean we’re still underneath it all the best of friends.

I don’t know. It’s a bit of hardship and a bit of being away from home, and thinking no one loves you. And we’re all sitting there in camp looking at all these women and thinking, “Well this is my life” and then you all become great mates.

Well there was none of that because if you walked in they’d say, “Hi” and “Come in”. There is always one rowdy one, there is always someone who will break the ice amongst every group. Doesn’t matter, well one at least, there’d probably be two or three all joining in to back her up.

Oh that was my friend.

Oh yes she was a bit choosy though.

No, no. And if there was there was always someone there to down them and say you know. It would never hold any strength really. I’m sure. Not when you’re in camp, not when you’re in barracks.

Yeah well I suppose you all had lots of mutual interests didn’t you? Even your work. Things, and that’s held you together a lot.

Oh I can only speak very highly and dearly of our the officers, all the ones I met. They were outstanding women I think. Although I think they were chosen for a special reason weren’t they? They were all hand picked by Sybil Irving.

Well I’ve often wondered that and I don’t know how she discovered them all. Sybil Irving got on a train and she went everywhere she felt, before the army founded, she went around and hand-picked all of these women.. Well they must have been leading women of their day mustn’t they? Ahead of their times.

Well we’ll leave the Country Women’s Association out.

I think they must have been.

Yeah they must have been.

Oh they were very good people.

Yes over at Batman Avenue; the men were having - that was early in the war.

And times changed. And we went in the gas tanks; you know they had all these big gas fans going, we all had to go in those and learn how to handle the gas. People just look at me when I say it now but we did.

You wore gas masks in, you were fitted up and you had to go in there and stay so long in there and learn how to put your gas mask on. And that’s all we had to do but you had to stay in that tank for so long.

God knows. I used to know but I don’t now. If I said it’d just be something plucked out of the air.

I wouldn’t like to be doing it too often, and I often wonder what you do in a gas attack. Because I think it was pretty primitive gear they had for those days.

Oh well you’d imagine you could. Even if you couldn’t you would imagine you could.

No because we wouldn’t have been in the army if we had have been freakers.

The men went in, and my friend Joan Olley and I, there weren’t that many girls around to do it. And we did the shooting.

Yeah I think it was a tank they had fitted up, it was mobile and I think they had it fitted up to train people in case there was a gas attack. And after it had finished with us it would go on to another unit.

No you’d get in and you’d have to stand up in the tank. Wasn’t that large.

Yes they put it on you and then you’d go.

No that might have come later if it had got worse. This was just a rev up in case there was a gas attack. But they were really worried very early in the war at one stage.

Well the Germans had invaded, but they were very worried about, well I suppose it would be the Japanese. And the ones in authority knew far more then we were ever

told or knew. We just did as we were told, asked.

Oh only .303’s. And they just had sand bags up all around us and we just laid down and were sighting and shooting. I loved it.

No I’m a right hander but somehow or other when I shoot I shut the wrong eye, and I hit most things, I don’t know how I do it. So I did very well in the

shooting, and when it was all over they came up, some of the men and they said, “Have you done shooting before? Where did you learn to shoot?” Because they couldn’t understand it: lady, well not a lady, an AWAS getting up fairly well in the shooting. And I said, “Well I’ve only shot a few rabbits I think.” Well they roared and they said, “Oh she has only shot a few rabbits!” See I didn’t think that was real shooting, you see I thought I was imagining a great. So that was fun.

Oh I wasn’t great, but it was fun.

Yeah just down here, the hostel. It was a private hotel and the army commandeered it I suppose. What did they do? They took over the big homes.

It was just here in Toorak Road, opposite the (UNCLEAR) is part of it, another shop. It was rather luxurious.

Most of the others said it was a very old guest house, but oh the beautiful stairways and the rooms were tiny; it was a hostel. I meant to get some cutting to show you today but I forget to walk down there and get them. It’s still going as a – it’s just down the street.

Mix with everybody and be there and we had the loveliest matron and

assistant matrons. I suppose you called it an orderly room. And they kept check on, we didn’t have leave passes but we did have to move our keys over if we were going out to ‘Out’, and when we came home we had to put the keys back to ‘In’, so that they had a check over who was out and who was in. I enjoyed it.

Well you joined up and I did my rookie’s

course and did my training and then I was a driver.

No. We’re drivers; they’re specialists. It’s a specialist job and then you get that pay. From when you begin, it doesn’t [increase], unless you get up to a corporal, but they don’t - well if you’re a driver you’re a driver and that’s your job. So you do that and you get the pay. But if you were a corporal you possibly wouldn’t be driving as much.

You’d be doing more saying who took what positions and where you went for the day and organising the tickets and that sort of thing; more clerical than driving.

No, in New Guinea I was a corporal; I was promoted to corporal. And the next would have been sergeant which wouldn’t have been long but the war finished. But that’s all right.

But then I came back to Melbourne, and why I was driving with corporal stripes, I went back driving because they took me on as a driver.

Oh I loved being a corporal.

Oh no just did the same thing, just the same job. So there you go.

Oh I think they seemed to be thronging around. See the munitions were there, everyone had to work and everyone had to have a job. And even if the country

was scarce of able-bodied men, well I suppose the men were getting scarcer, but then the Americans came and that filled the city up again. And the soldiers marching around in their uniforms while they were training and doing things in all of the different services. Were there Dutch here as well?

I’ve got this Dutch - I keep thinking of it.

No no they were all in Brisbane.

Oh well they had to, if they were called; if they didn’t do it, if they weren’t working they were called up to go and do it weren’t they later on?

I suppose there was the beginning of it but not really I don’t think. No I wasn’t in Melbourne I was gone then when the manpower thing began to hit. That’s why the women went to New Guinea, because the manpower was down. They needed, there weren’t enough men to keep on filling the positions. And the women did get into the workforce then didn’t they? A lot after the war.

Yes, it was the lights. When I left Melbourne, Melbourne was blacked out. You wouldn’t dare have a crack or crease or anything in your curtains or light at night. Driving in the blackout, and get up to Brisbane, it was a blaze of lights, because it was the Brisbane, I

don’t know it was a crazy Brisbane line I’ve ever heard of.

Well if the Japanese were going to attack, that, through there, they were going to allow, let the top half go wasn’t it? They were going to concentrate their forces below there. And above the Brisbane line well, if they happened to win it

they were going to be ready below that to attack them. That was my - but that’s a long time ago.

It was.

Yeah they came in there but we were never told they were bombing Townsville. It appears now, if you were in camp with the girls they’d talk, and the Townsville girls used to say they did fly in, they did bomb.

So that’s how anyway I knew it, but apart from that it didn’t appear in the papers. I hope I’m right.

That’s all right she is a far nicer person.

Well we went on the Duntroon. From Brisbane did you say?

Yes on the Duntroon.

Yes.

Oh no, only three hundred odd

AWAS and the rest were men, soldiers.

We were training in the end of ’44, but as things were moving so briskly up north we were all ready but we had to wait until we could get - We weren’t the flavour of the month with the heads of the army.

To get up there. I don’t know, just a new thing with women.

And well we just went. The ships just kept going up north, loaded with men. They were trying to finish off the war, they were fighting up past Lae by that time. Wewak was just in force going then. And they’d all be heading to Wewak with reinforcements and things. So we

just had to wait for a ship for a while. And it was a bit into ’45 when we got there.

I can’t remember now, I can only remember about the AWAS, there were three hundred and forty odd AWAS on it.

Oh there was great anxiety. The convoy used to be out at sea and I thought if you had a convoy they’d be all around you and shelter you but they would only come in at night. Out on the horizon, ever so far you’d see a smoke and they’d say, “Oh the convoy’s coming in”. But you’d never know what ship it was, they were way out, they’d close in at night, at day-time they’d be gone; they swept the seas out ahead of you.

No I didn’t either it was fascinating.

They seemed to be concerned that there could be, but there wasn’t so I don’t know. But they were quite concerned about it.

So they say.

Yeah that was dreadful wasn’t it?

I was in George Street, Fitzroy and one lass was the sister in charge of where we were, and she was meant to be on that and she wasn’t so that how I remember it so clearly, she was so upset.

Well [we] all were because of her, that was dreadful.

Well she really was,

that’s how I remember it so clearly.

No I was in Brisbane when I heard about those, and there were girls from Townsville in barracks with us and they would come back and tell the tales.

I’m sure because we were not told that. I’m sure we weren’t.

No not the way it was. Now we’re hearing so much about it, it’s amazing isn’t it? No we weren’t but we did hear about Pearl Harbour.

Yes that was well featured.

They were well featured yes.

We went to Lae.

Yes.

No, went straight to Lae.

Oh it was just shattered. Derelict;

the Mighty Markham had been down the night before we were to come in.

No that’s a great river.

The Mighty Markham, it goes three miles out to sea and you put your bucket in and get fresh water, that’s the force of the torrent, when it rains it comes down. It rained the night before, so all of the wharves, well there was only one tin can wharf, they

used to be these petrol drums all wired together, and just planks across that was our -

Yes that was the wharf floating there. But that was all wrecked and so we had to get off and wade in.

No we had to come down

the ladders off the Duntroon with all of our gear. They had boats underneath us to catch if anyone fell, but of course no one fell. But that was quite an event.

Yes. Getting off and then we had to wade so far into the beach, that was all right but we knew we were in Lae.

There was no sign of it, none whatsoever. And there was no native village in Lae

when we were there, they were all gone.

I don’t know if the sand was black there; Malahang Beach further up the sand was black. Black sand which after a while you got quite fond of, you didn’t take any notice of it being black, pick it up with all of its colours through. But I think that must have been a dark grotty beach.

And then we marched through there and there was some Australian soldiers marched up along one side, coming to have a look at us.

Oh I think they’d like to, I don’t know that they did. But I don’t know why they were there, I suppose they’d be the working party cleaning up the mess. I don’t know, I suppose that’s how they got there. So they, I think they just cheered and wished us well. And we went on

and henceforth went to our barracks.

Oh yes at least. Yeah it’d be that far.

No, the first Aust. Army, the Japs had been in that and that was all right. But as for a town, you know

the natives being there was no sign, they had just all gone. And a bit further up where the township had been there was the great blob of a mountain, and the end of that had been knocked off, and they said there was heaps of Japanese buried in it. Of course we didn’t see any sign it had been all blown up and all the soil over it, there

was no sign of anything else.

Not where we were; we were on the Malahang Beach there was only one.

A drive, yes you could swim in the Malahang. Pretty rough great surf, you’d have to sit down for the surf to go over you, you couldn’t do anything, but that was great.

Yes yes, you had to hang onto those.

Hope for the best, that was part of it though wasn’t it?

But that was where the black sand was, and then there was a creek running into it too. You could get out of the surf if it was too rough and get into the creek. But after being in that rough sea and then you went into the cold creek it wasn’t too good, you’d want to get out pretty quickly.

Oh no I can’t remember where that was, no not here.

And we were all in our gear.

Up to our knees.

No no I think it is what we half expected. We had

great, well lots of speakers and people lecturing us and telling us what it was going to be like.

Well our colonel had flown up to Lae to be ahead of us, Margaret Spencer, and she had her staff sergeant with her, Edwards, and they had warned us, they had come and lectured us and told us about the roads around, what was going to be there. We were well prepared for it.

Just all fitting into place as we went along.

Oh well they told us the road was Butibum Road, that was the native language. And Butibum Road went along the front and prepared us for the New Guinean talk.

Oh yes we got little books on pidgin and translated. We were

quite, I couldn’t do it now but,

Oh just ‘liklik number one’, that was his little boy, and ‘liklik number two’, and they only had a few children the New Guineans they didn’t go into large families, well they were so proud of the children the few we saw. But anyway we went on the transports and went to the barracks and couldn’t believe out eyes there with the great fence around it and razor wire going in and guards on the gates.

And the orderly room and down we went to our huts. It was all allotted before we arrived, it was just perfect army timing and training.

Yes well pretty, everything was arranged and organised and allotted, I can’t remember what day it was, we didn’t go -

yeah we’d be almost straight to work, there was no hanging around. I think that’s what was so good, there was always something doing. No time to sit down and have regrets, or say, “I don’t like this”, none of that.

I got up in the morning, bright and early, then we’d take our atebrin pills, we have our corporal in charge of the hut, she’d have the

atebrin roll to mark the names off. We had been taking our atebrin tablets for quite a while before we went there, we had all of our injections and we were pretty fit and we were used to the atebrin. And then we’d take us every morning, in the hut.

Oh I was orange, stayed like that for months. Because you had to take it so

long after you got back, quite a long time, and of course everyone thought I was permanently yellow. That was silly, anyway we’d have our atebrin tablets, and we’d race to breakfast and get back. By the time we all showered and you had to make your bed and be meticulous; everything had to be perfect, you know everything so.

Oh you’d have your mosquito net rolled up for the day. Tied up with two pieces hanging down that end and two down this end. All had to be neat and orderly. And at six o’clock each night that had to be all let down and tucked in. So your bed had to be made just so, so that you could tuck your net in. We only had sheets I think, we had one blanket (we didn’t need it). We didn’t need the sheet when we arrived, we didn’t need it for a long time.

When there’d be a faint tremor we might think it was a cool night and we might put the sheet on. I don’t think we ever used the blanket, it was there but we didn’t use it. You’d tuck; it was good to tuck things in with.

Oh yes we had just a standard cupboard shared with our next bed mate. Which was Sally, we were always together, I wasn’t with her in Brisbane she was opposite, but in New Guinea we were always in the same hut.

And same cupboard, and you shared this cupboard between the two of you. You didn’t have that much gear either, it was all the necessities.

I can’t remember that. I’m sure by the look of our jackets that we didn’t do them, I’m sure they must have had a laundry there somewhere. I suppose they’d had people who worked in the laundry, they had all those men and all of those officers that had to be catered for.

And the officers were always meticulous in their tropical gear. So someone must have done that I don’t know, unless the batman did it.

Oh that must have been, I can’t remember if it was before the war finished or after. But I think it must have been after. Because all the foundations in the floor went, can you imagine a big floor flapping around?

There’d be a date somewhere on record, but I haven’t bothered to check it, I haven’t really thought much about it until now. But it was one of the heaviest ever measured in Lae, you know with the readings.

Oh we were in out hut at night, or possibly eating a little bit of tropical fruit

or doing something after our meal. And my friend was away at her drama, she did drama as I mentioned before, at Lae base. And there was this all mighty rocking, not rocking but growling under the ground. If you had heard it you would know it was an earthquake - you been in an earthquake? Well you don’t need anyone to tell you there is an earthquake coming. And this great enormous rattling and rolling

came along and it was horrific, so we all ran. Everybody dropped, no need to say, they all dropped and ran out. But Sally was at Lae base and she just couldn’t move they had to pick her up and throw her out. Because might have been slightly more severe there. And anyway we were out standing in this rocking, if you stood still, now you’re not allowed to say this isn’t right because it is.

If you stood still you know if the ground was up and you stood still you went down with it. If you ran you fell into that hollow, it wasn’t nice. And I had a girl with her arms around my neck, nearly choking me clinging on, and beside herself. So that made me pull myself together and survive. And it was just horrific. And the tropical trees, you know with their bendy high trunks?

They just bend and go with it. Swaying over, you can see why all that tropical stuff is, just goes with nature doesn’t it. And then it eventually stopped.

Well it seemed forever to me but it didn’t last very long.

No but all of our foundations were, well see they were built for it. See they had tremors

all day long actually in Lae. You don’t take any notice of the little tremors, some would be more severe than others but it is earthquake territory. And there had been a lot of this shaking and getting severe at times so we were used to it, but we didn’t expect this great, it was very high on the scale.

I don’t know whether there were any deaths amongst the natives, the girls were okay.

No they didn’t like the beer, the girls, very much.

Whisky. There was a bit of whisky around and if you were lucky you might get a bottle of whisky.

I don’t know someone might give you a bottle, some of the engineers. I think the officers would get their liquor wouldn’t they? I’m sure they’d be able to get that.

Yeah something like that. So occasionally we got a bottle, a little reserve.

Oh yes, yes. But I’m not sure if the electricity failed or anything like that. But it really was the most severe thing and I swore that I’d never come back to New Guinea, but I did. It was just horrific.

Yes and you’d have to get the broom and sweep your part of the hut. Well we’d have to march down I suppose and if there was transport to work we’d get in the trucks and down the road to either First Aust. Army, or Lae base was in another region.

And then you’d get off and march to your unit. I had lovely; engineers, they had a two storey, the engineers they always had to be a bit better and a bit different. So I was upstairs in this nice office with the major and captain and lieutenant. Another one, he used to stand up over the partition and say what he wanted, it was great.

No, I had all my - but I didn’t do much, I did very little, only if there was an emergency and they just had to get something off and the typist wasn’t there.

Yes, I didn’t run any errands, I just sat and did what the… Wewak was just over; that was quite a big battle and they had to order all of

the supplies. Engineers used to work very hard with keeping all of the supplies up and they had to have the ships and all of the river ships, you know they had them named after all of the different rivers. And they were running up and down that coast all of the time, with supplies and gears. And it was up to Major Hellsham and his section to keep the supplies up.

Some of it, not really. Wee bit. But Wewak they had, they worked really hard, they had to have everything ready, all of the supplies. You know for when they landed you had to have it ready to get up and build their accommodation.

You had to do things, the army fighting the Japs out to get in, they had to be looked after. And they had everything going well, and I arrived just at the end of it. And they had ordered everything from down south, down to the last (UNCLEAR), and they hadn’t sent any nails to hammer up all of the buildings.

Well I heard all about that because I arrived just at the end of the Wewak thing and where were the nails? That was, I had to laugh when you said, “Were you?” But that’s what we did.

Oh I don’t know, I believe the Australian papers were full of it.

I suppose the factory would get blamed and see we’d get blamed see. But that was only, you were asking; that’s why I smiled because I thought of the nails.

Can you imagine it?

So anyway I guess they flew them in quick and lively. More nails then they would ever want.

And then later on they had the forestry section move in and they were getting all the samples of the different timbers. This kept us quite busy, me busy,

sending it down here somewhere to have it all tested because the theory was because of all the rain in New Guinea would that timber be good for using for anything? You know they thought it might be too, you know it wouldn’t be the right timber to use. And it was quite interesting sending away all the specimens and writing it all up.

No.

I used to, they were taking specimens from all of these great tall

timbers but I did know the names at one time but I don’t think I have discussed it ever since. But that was fascinating and then they asked me to go onto Rabaul with them. Well [I] didn’t answer but my general was sitting there and he said, “No she is not going anywhere, she is going home”. And I thought, “Well that solves that situation.” But they said, “Name your own wages”, because they didn’t have any girls, any staff and they were going onto Rabaul. But they wanted all these timbers and I have often wondered what happened.

But I believe the New Guinea timber is quite good.

Isn’t it amazing, they were worried about all of this water. That was right into the peace.

Oh I don‘t think he was there while we were there. And you know I can’t remember the one that followed him, it was something with an S.

You know it could have been, that rings a bell. I did know them all,

one was the chief engineer lived in the house too.

No. Oh yes we did.

No when he did arrive we were all out, there is a story there. But that isn’t quite right, that is the newspaper and they use their own, but yes he was out and we did have a big parade for him.

In all the heat and marching. He was so late arriving we should have got a message, but anyway he did arrive and he knows we wouldn’t be home for Christmas and girls all decided to faint. We’d been out there all morning. I didn’t faint. Did you read the story?

Anyway that’s the only time we saw him I think.

Oh he walked up and down; he didn’t come to tell us that, no.

Oh yes we had Duke of Gloucester and Shriver his aide.

Well I told someone about it recently and they didn’t think it was funny.

Well at the time it was the Duke of Gloucester, and was it Brigadier Shriver his aide? I can’t remember. Anyway they were doing a tour of troops to boost morale and to get them going and they were arriving in Lae. And oh it caused havoc, you can imagine all the work it caused. We had to have special apartments for him and he wouldn’t use the normal

latrines as they were called, he had to have his own, private one. And the engineers had a queer sense of humour. And they had been working overtime and doing things, so they thought they would build him his own little house. And they made it, they were so clever apparently, some of these people.

And they made it so if anyone touched it it would collapse. So they were all sitting back waiting for what happened, and there was a poem made up about it. I wish I had had my things, I have still got the poem, I haven’t read the poem in years. And it said, “John Curtin [former Prime Minister of Australia] groaned and died.” The whole thing collapsed when the Duke of Gloucester sat on it you see? They were paying him out for not using the ones the troops use and fitting in.

Oh I don’t know, they’d say they hadn’t finished or something went wrong. Or they didn’t know. But this poem was a clever thing.

Oh yes we had Gracie Fields.

Oh she was gorgeous. She got up and performed. That was at Lae.

‘When the lights go out again all over the world’. She sang everything she knew, oh she was gorgeous.

And some of the fellows would be clapping and calling out, and she would say, “Oh shut up”. She just mixed it with them the whole night, oh she was gorgeous.

Well all of those who could get there, if you could get leave and go, it was great.

I think it was Vera Lyn wasn’t it? But all those old favourites I can’t think of any more. She was just superb, I think she sang every well known song she had ever been singing.

Well they were rolling in, and then I suppose the war finished. But there was some well known ones. But I haven’t got my books and papers here. But that must be outstanding for me to remember.

May, that was May. Oh yes I think everybody heaved a sigh of relief didn’t they? That was great.

On the boat going to Lae. About that time that we were on the boat, we were just about at Lae in May.

Well we knew then it was winding down because it was only the

Japs to clean out of there. The Japanese that had to be cleared out and they were moving up away.

No I don’t think we were on the boat, I think we were supposed to be but I don’t think we were, because that was while all the shipping or anything was changing. It created a lot of change in the boating system.

No it was very sombre I think.

Yes it was, but not as much as the September one.

Oh it was unreal. It really was. In the evening we arrived back and there was all this shouting and they were burning down,

oh I don’t know what they did after that the next day. But that was not in our unit, that was across, the way where the Australians were. And oh it went on nearly all night I think the celebrating and the cheering.

I think it must have been when we were, it must have been after work towards evening because that’s when all the cheering started and all the flames started going up because

then Japan had surrendered. So we all stood out in the yard and looked at the sky and hoped and prayed there’d be no more war. We all felt sure that was going to be the end of all wars, we really did. From now there will be peace on earth and the children will be all happy. This is what, you know everyone was thinking. It must have been a beautiful moonlight night I think.

I guess it did. I’m sure it did, they were all off home.

I know what you mean.

Yes I think so. But the main thing was to get home wasn’t it? Main thing was to get home.

But it didn’t enter our head that it was going to be hard to forge your way or anything; everything was just going to be wonderful.

Yes. I was just thinking, how did I hear that though?

Because I just felt I wasn’t in Lae when I heard about it, I must have been. Have to be wouldn’t I? Yes we did hear about that. It was about the American, I’m sure I heard about the American pilot who flew it, that I met them somewhere or something. No I couldn’t have if I had been in Lae.

Must have been a friend of his or something that was telling the story.

Well I don’t know that they really realised they were going to drop this horrific thing. They knew when they went back. Must have been, I might have been hearing amongst the engineer officers also. I just didn’t feel I was in Lae at the time. They said they didn’t realise they were carrying such a weapon, when they set off. That’s all I heard and that they couldn’t realise what they had done.

We knew, no that’s what they said, they just couldn’t realise the havoc they caused.

To end the war, yes it had to be stopped. Bit like Bush’s [George Bush, President of United States] antics now, so there you go.

Oh not really because, oh well we all

thought we would be home by Christmas. We really thought we might be. But then if you were really working in an office and you knew all the work and all of the winding up. And then they let off a bomb dump; when you asked about the bomb I thought I didn’t say anything about the bomb.

Yes.

I don’t know. They said, “The dreadful Americans did it, who would know?” The whole lot of the bomb dump went up, all night long. That’s what I thought you were asking me about.

Yes. The whole of Lae could have gone, we wouldn’t have got home then but it didn’t go. So it was all right.

Yes some of the men got home for quickly, the ones who had been there a long time. Some of them had been there three years or more, that’s why we were sent up there to relieve them to get them home. Because they had been in the overseas battles and they were sent to New Guinea, and they were left

there because they were doing such a good job. So they weren’t all out fighting, there were lots of them in these, you’ve got to have an office going to keep the war going. Got to work in it and realise what they were doing and why they were doing it.

Get the sense, the feel of it and keep themselves revved up to do it. So we knew then that they would go first, some of them went very quickly too, they had been there quite a while.

I’m not sure. Oh yes, yes they were coming in and they were staging them. You are right, because they couldn’t let them go straight home, they had to get them accustomed to the atmosphere or the different way of life before they could meet their rellies and go home.

Yes they were doing a lot of therapy with them weren’t they?

And they were wandering around towards the end, so yes they were there. But we didn’t come in contact with that very much. Except we were walking to and fro to work then, we wouldn’t be so guarded, and they’d be there. It was a staging post for them on their way back. They were so shocked and in a dreadful state.

Well yeah. I didn’t see that many of them but I do know that they did leave a lot of them there to

get ready to come home. And they would be strolling aimlessly around.

Yeah, I think, yeah.

No that’s when I got my discharge.

I don’t know it would be nearly twelve months afterwards, somewhere about that.

No I didn’t. Well I thought we would, I don’t think it was as late as May but anyway whatever it was. The first lot went out, they got off home, but we were left to do the cleaning up and the tidying up. I think we were a much smaller crowd, we were all happy, we all knew we would be going home.

Yeah that was at the end of that. When they heard we were going back they came and asked me to go with them instead of going home, would I take my discharge there and go, but I didn’t.

No no. This was just discharge and go up there. Because we had been working reasonably closely with these two men that were going

to open up the timber thing so no.

What, when we were actually going? Oh no, our AWAS officers. Our Colonel Spencer would tell us that.

Oh yes we were quite pleased. Only my friend Sally went to hospital and had her appendix out and she wouldn’t go home with the first lot, she waited for me. So she had to be well enough to come home on the boat. But it was nice to hear we were going. Because she had been convalescing and then she [was] fit and it was nice to go home together.

Oh I don’t know. We called in a couple of places down on the way. Don’t think it was Townsville though, but I know Queensland quite well.

And then we got to Brisbane and we had a nice parade through the city, I think they must have had trucks for us to get on to take us back out to Fraser’s Paddock, but we really were paraded around.

It was. It was really quite pleasant. Quite a welcome home.

We got on a troop train, we went to Sydney from Brisbane. Then we went on a troop train to Melbourne and our lovely Sybil Irving was there and officers, but very few. Scarcely anyone met us at Flinders Street but that was okay. All we wanted to do was get on the tram and get here. I can’t remember how we got to where we were going. Where would you go? The army must have put us up somewhere wouldn’t they?

Unless we caught a country train home to the country, I don’t remember isn’t it dreadful?

Loaded up with gear.

Oh they were very strange and apart from one or two we didn’t have them in our hut.

But there is usually something that would trigger them off, they would have something from home, or the boyfriend would break off with them or they’d be breaking with the boyfriend. But something always triggered it, it really did. And why they were so unhappy I don’t know but there must have been some cause to it and they decided then that they hated the climate and they hated the work and they didn’t like this

and they didn’t like that and nothing suited. And they would just go downhill. And get very oh mentally unstable. One or two, if they were really in a bad way would be sent off home very quickly in a plane. Not many were sent home, but if they were too bad they would go. It was very sad because they just couldn’t cope or perhaps they would think they were getting dermatitis and they’d start scratching. You know all this sort of thing, they needed lots

of sympathy, but there was usually a trigger to it. But they just couldn’t cope with the climate really I think.

Oh I think they might have in the long run, some of them became quite religious, but there was a dreadful strain on them. It was war and all the food and it was pretty rugged living, but you had to make them conquer it. That’s why we were there, chosen, because they

thought that we could cope with anything that came along, but some of them just couldn’t. And then they wouldn’t get letters from home and they’d go into despair, it was very sad really. But they were very, very kind to them but sometimes we’d think they kept them a wee bit long, but then they would all hope that they would pull out of it but they couldn’t.

Oh some of them would. But we had one lass in our hut

and she was a very lovely thing, she really was. I don’t know what happened to her and she just said, “Oh Margaret wouldn’t come and sit beside me on my bed”, and I said, “Right”. And she got very sensitive. She said, “Margaret knows I’m queer, Margaret knows I’m strange” and I didn’t. I didn’t realise there was anything, I’d have gone and sat beside her all night if she wanted me to. And she said, “You didn’t come and sit beside me.” Well I never ever went and sat beside her on the bed. She was opposite me and we’d talk. Anyway she really

went downhill. But soon she thought she was in love with an officer, and they were married. They weren’t supposed to have anything to do with us, which they didn’t really. But you always have someone who gets a crush on someone especially when they were away from home and lonely. It was just a thing in her head and she went down hill in a big heap. And she was on the - well I suppose they couldn’t get her out then. Planes were flying madly,

towards the end of the war. She stayed a bit too long in Lae and then she was on a ship, the Canberra coming back and they put her in a large bunk room downstairs with others and our lovely colonel Margaret Spencer who was always so good, kind and understanding. She called, got Sally and myself in and said, “I’ve Pats down there with all of these other girls

around her.” And half of them by this time were going quite odd, so we got out just in time didn’t we? And they said, “Just watch her because she is talking about suicide and doing things; just watch her, you two.” We really liked our colonel and she was quite understanding to us, so she said, “I’m really relying on the two of you to keep your eye on her.” So when she was in the cabin at night that was okay, but

we - she wanted it done very surreptitiously. She said, “I can’t be going in to look at her or she’ll topple right off. But if anything goes wrong you let me know.” But she was okay and they got her home. But they sent her off for treatment, they didn’t send her home. Tried to treat her, and that was just awful, they gave her shock treatment and everything else, but anyway. She was just too, I don’t know what it was that sent her off,

there was always something to trigger it. I feel. Even if this love affair with the officer was imagination I mean that triggered. Just silly simple things, it was strange wasn’t it? But the men were doing it too. Must be something I don’t know. Too much strain and not enough vitamins, not enough food perhaps I hadn’t thought about that.

And not getting any letters yeah. So that was the story, there were a few, but they were looked after. Once our colonel got sight of it she really tried to take care of them.

Well Pat was the only one in our hut and until she was telling the girls that I wouldn’t come and sit beside her, she was really, she was just

the loveliest thing. We didn’t realise, I don’t know. But if anyone knew they would immediately go to the colonel and tell them.

Well there was something, a place in Queensland wasn’t there?

I’ve forgotten the name of it. Something with a G I think it was. They popped her in there off the boat, but she should have been sent home I think. I’m not a doctor. And they gave her shock treatment. And I went to Adelaide and saw her after she came home, because we really were great friends, and “Oh!” she said, “The shock treatment was just shocking.” Nearly killed her. And then she went home, and anyway she died,

I don’t know what of; whether she suicided or not I couldn’t bear to find out. But I was never told either. It was just that she had died. That was very sad but there were only really odd cases of that.

Well I only saw her, had dinner with her and saw her in Adelaide a few times. And I don’t know.

She was very quiet, but very nice when I met her and we talked. I think she got married, I think she married the boyfriend when she got home. But she wasn’t well. I don’t know, I have a feeling; what finished her I wouldn’t say.

That was just, I don’t know.

Yeah.

Just for a short time yes.

Well yes it was great because my friend Joan Olley was still in the unit. And all my old friends that I had known a long time and been very close to before, and that was a very happy time. Really was.

No no, they didn’t want to hear about it.

No. Joan Olley didn’t ever, she has never heard about any of these stories you’ve heard me tell about New Guinea.

Well she was in Melbourne and she was busy.

Oh I don’t think so, I don’t think she could care less. I think I had no right to go, I should have stayed in Melbourne with all of my friends.

That’s what she told me, no, no that’s what she’d say.

And even my other friends, they aren’t interested, they don’t want to hear, they think there were shops and towns. They do.

Yeah.

Oh yes. I went home.

Oh great,

Sally my friend came with me. I went home and then there was a phone call to say come and get me, I’m in St Arnott or Stawell or wherever was the nearest train stop. And it didn’t matter that petrol was rationing or everything else we had to go and get Sally. So that was great she came home, because she had been so ill in New Guinea, and she came up and we were home for a wee while. And that’s when we decided to take off and go for this holiday. I mentioned that we went for a holiday in the Blue Mountains.

What?

No, no not at all.

Well I think he said, “Well I think it’s about time we got married isn’t it?” And I said, “Oh well maybe.”

Well there was a drought on,

Yes it was, and he was on a property and the sheep were all down in Gippsland. He had a mother and a sister at home. Another sister had married and had two babies, and he was in Gippsland looking after all of these sheep. And he had a letter saying he was nearly at his wits end with his mother and his sister, I burnt it. Some of my daughters found it and read it and I thought that’s the end of that letter.

It just wasn’t the time. Because he had to house his mother, he had to get another home for them.

Well I wasn’t promised to anyone because I was the only girl in the district, and he was the most eligible. And I was always going to marry him, mightn’t have known it when I was much younger. And anyway there you go, you asked me, so he just,

I said I was going to Sydney; “If you want me, come and get me”. But he didn’t come. So I had to come home.

Yes yes. Some more.

Oh and it was nice and to be able to go and get to know Sydney and some of the girls could swap from Brisbane to Sydney to drive, but I missed out on that somehow, I like Queensland too much, I stayed there. But we felt we didn’t know Sydney.

It was nice to get around and get to know it.

Oh well we knew that one day would come. So I thought, “Well I’ll go home and if nothing eventuates, if the mother is still” - we had to have a home to live in

you just don’t get married, not in the country those days because things were pretty tough then. And I thought, “Well I’ll go back home seeing I am suppose to be there.” And I said so, so he said, “There’ll be a wedding” and he found a home for his mother in Stawell; it was a big move for them too to leave their home. But that’s what happened in the country properties:

the son stayed on the home and the parents moved on. Well they still do it really, in the district where we are. So that was the story of that and I was married a month later. So that’s romantic for you.

Well yes. Sally and I were home and if he couldn’t make up his mind and if nothing eventuated I was off to England. I was, that’s true.

Because she was longing to go. She had a wonderful life Sally.

Married, she went to work for Eveready. That was new in Sydney at the time, they needed a geologist and they got him out from America, and he did all the manganese mining. They didn’t do the mining, he went around and mapped out all of the, all

the manganese in Australia is. I don’t think it has been mined yet. But then anyway she went off, she was a driver-come-aide to Mr Brisbane, the manger of Eveready, and then she and Gill were married and they went off to India and Nepal. They went to Fiji for their honeymoon and they were there for weeks. And then off to India and Nepal. They had a fairytale life and

then back to America to educate their two children.

Yes she’s quite a lady.

Yes she might be out any day.

Yeah so there you go, she comes out quite frequently. And I’m wearing her bracelet for good luck.

Topaz, golden topaz. But I haven’t worn it for years and I just thought I’ll wear it to remind me of Sally.

Yes.

I married a quite eligible gentleman; I didn’t work. Oh yes I worked in the homestead and I did lots of community work and I loved it, oh yes.

Oh I well I was very unfortunate. I was just fortunate that I had all that background. When my children were quite small my husband threw a heart attack and died. Oh it was worse than that, I was in Melbourne for the day

and I received word and I went off my head. I went home and after things, I had a property to run, a large four thousand property, merino stud sheep. And when you’re young and with children you don’t think that is going to happen to you, it’s never going to happen. It just happened like that. So I just had - I had learnt to be independent in the army and thank goodness I had because where would I be without it?

I just had to get up and stand on my feet and fight. So there you go. It was just as well I had my little fairytale wasn’t it? Because I hadn’t ever dreamed of, and I had a lovely, I did normal things in the country: I went to Red Cross, I only did the drama in the CWA [Country Women’s Association], I did all the blood banks. And oh did all kinds of things, anything in the community I was

included in and I went. I was regional secretary for the Gradins region of Red Cross. Out nearly every day in my car, and then all that stopped, but I had that for a while. And I had two children, I had my son at Melbourne Grammar and Fiona was at Merton Hall, and then I had this property. I had to stand up and I really had to, it was very difficult being a woman

amongst all of the men. You just didn’t rate.

But I did it.

For a wee while, then my son went to Marcus Olden and there you go. He came back and then he threw a heart attack and died.

So there you go.

So the property is a wee bit (UNCLEAR). But thank goodness for lots of thing. But I really think the army was, it helped, it must have helped all of those women who were in it to be independent and on their feet and go. I’m sure it did.

Oh I’m sure it did. But I’m sure those women who were army officers, I’m sure they were working for all that type of thing too. I’m quite sure.