Australians at War Film Archive

Right, well I was born in Nottingham England, 1920 and I don’t remember much about that.

But we came out on a grid boat, the Thermosticles in 1923, around about Christmas time. We came into Melbourne and my father was a bricklayer and he was able to get a job fairly quickly. He lined up, it was during the Depression, but he was, the only one apparently that lined up with his tools and the man picked him because he said, “This man is ready to start

work right now,” so Dad got the job. We were living in St Kilda at the time, we had 2 or 3 moves there, just renting. And then we came to Springvale and there was no electric light apart from the main street in those days, no gas. But it certainly developed today into quite a city in its own right. I went to school in Springvale and Caulfield Technical School in 1932.

I wouldn’t study, so Dad said, “If you won’t study there’s only one other thing, work.” And I started working with him as a brick layer, actually, but he was killed on a motorbike, drunken bookmaker coming home from Cranbourne Races. 14 feet on the wrong side of the road at Dingley, and Dad never regained consciousness, and that was the end of my brick laying actually.

He did say while I was there he’d be watching me all the time thinking I wasn’t doing enough and I’d be thinking he was watching me, so he put me with one of his gangs. He ran 3 gangs, put me with another fellow, and I helped to build precious little, but I helped to build in Springvale some of the shops. I got a job then with the Sanitarium Health Foods giving out coupons, buy one and get one

free. And I was there for about 18 months, I suppose. And they thought fairly highly of me, and they gave me a job when these campaigns finished going around with the travellers. I was their jockey and as they got the orders in the grocer shops I’d go and carry all the goods in, Weetbix and Cornflakes and what have you. And then an uncle of mine got me a job

with AG Healings, up near the Victoria Market. And I went through several of their departments and I was there turning fitting, I did sheet metal working, I was even in the bike for a little while, but only just sort of cleaning up when I first started there. And then the war came along, oh just before that, I joined the 52nd

Battalion, the Gippsland Regiment. I was in that for nearly 2 years before the war, and I also joined the Dandenong Rifle Club, 303 Club and I was in that. And then war broke out, we did a camp up at Straubel and that was a 3 month camp. We had done a month previously, but we did a 3 months then and they called for volunteers in that, twice I applied, but we heard nothing from

that. And then when that camp finished 4 of us, all underage, we signed each other’s papers. We went along to the McRae Williamson building and they had a downstairs room, where serviceman could go and get a cup of coffee and some biscuits. And we went there and made our plans, then we went around to the

Flinders Street Railway Station, and in one of the booking offices it had big signs up, Blamey’s Special Forces, due in here. And we went in and we told this fellow we wanted to join up and he gave us our papers, back we went to the McRae Williamson building, we signed each other’s papers, one was my mother and one was my father and vice versa. And we took them back and he said, “Good, you’ll hear in a fortnight.”

I said, “Well I’ve already applied twice,” and I said, “I’ve heard nothing,” and the other’s chipped in and said, “No we went to go today.” And he said, “If you’re that determined,” he said, “I’ll get you the papers stamped.” And he stamped the papers and we went round to Stead Street in South Melbourne, and we joined up. But he said, “You won’t be called up,” he said, “for about a fortnight.” He gave us a date, I went home, I told my mother and she couldn’t believe her ears.

She had said she would sign papers when I turned 20, but we got, we beat the gun a little.

I was 19, close to 20, but I’d promised Mum that I wouldn’t do anything, she did actually sign some papers for me on the proviso that I didn’t put them in until I was 20. But they did go in a bit early. But anyway, we went home and then

when the time came, we went and reported to Caulfield Racecourse and we went through the main medical and then I became VX13019. And that stuck with me for about 4 ½ years.

No, but during the Depression, he ran three gangs and he had a chap in charge of each one, that’s why he put me with one of them, who he said would train me just as well as he could.

But I wouldn’t feel that I was under surveillance all the time, and he said, “I won’t think you’re not doing enough,” which I though was very, very good really and I’ve always thought that ever since. But Dad was out of work for 12, perhaps 18 months during the Depression and he, with another fellow, got on their bikes, they got the, well Dad got the local plumber to make him a dish for washing gold,

and they went up to….Walhalla and he made wages. But the other fellow was drinking a lot, and Dad, while he would enjoy a beer particularly on a hot day when he was working that was all he ever wanted, so they parted company and Dad was on his own. And he was up there for oh quite a number, the best part of a year. But he made wages getting gold and then he came home

and bang into work again at his trade. He did a lot of these big tall chimneys, you know, the big chimney stacks that go way, way up, he sort of specialised in them. And in boilers, he worked for a firm called Babcock’s and Wilcox’s and I believe they’re still in business.

Yes he was in the South Notts Hussars,

and he was in the Middle East, I think under Allenby with more or less alongside the Australian Light Horse, Dad was the same as them. And Hussars were Horsemen, against the Turks and then they were taken to Greece, oh to Turkey and his ship was torpedoed. The ship was the Llandovery Castle,

and his best mate couldn’t swim, he drowned. Dad made it to the shore and he was in Gallipoli until they withdrew them and sent them to France. And he saw service in France and then came home, married my mother. I had an uncle in the South Notts Hussars, sorry I made a big mistake there, in the Northumberland Fusiliers and he wasn’t in France long

and he was taken prisoner and spent most of the war as a prisoner of war.

Dad never said hardly a word. I knew he was in the army, I knew he was a horse soldier. And he was very good with horses, he loved horses. But no I didn’t hear a lot from him, I heard more from my uncle and

I was bought up on British history and I had a lot of books and I read a lot. And apart from that no I didn’t hear much from Dad.

Yes, yes I was an only one. But apart from the fact that I would always like brothers, till you see some brothers who don’t get on. But I was always allowed to have a lot of mates, even coming home and sleeping and that sort of thing. I had no,

there was holds barred as far as that was concerned. I had to do what I was told. When Dad spoke, actually I was more frightened of Mum, when she spoke I did it, but she’d also say, “Wait till your father comes home.” But I think Dad was a little bit more sympathetic.

Dad was

reasonably religious, he wasn’t a fanatic or anything like that, but he believed in God and he would go to church, he made sure I went to church. Mum sort of went along with that, she had her beliefs too, just the same, but Dad was a bit more that way inclined. But Mum got a job when we first came out here in a laundry, down on High Street, St

Kilda, and I first – actually I first started school there, but only for about 12 months, when we moved to Springvale. They led a very ordinary sort of life I suppose, oh they were wonderful as far as I was concerned, but generally speaking, they were just ordinary folk. They would help anybody they possibly could, you know as they were going along. But

no I don’t know that anything that I can really bring to mind that would sort of stand out.

Well we lived in 3 different places. One of them was not that far from the Town Hall and there’s an overpass, I can remember an overpass going over for the train,

and we weren’t very far from that, behind a grocer shop, Crofts, there well out of business today. There was a butcher about 2 doors down, a Mr Ginger and he gave me a dog, a foxie [fox terrier]. And while we only had the dog for a couple of years, nevertheless it went to my uncle and he had the offspring of that dog

for all of about 30 years. But that’s about all I can remember of around about there.

I went to Brighton Road School.

Yes virtually all the time.

Oh yes, I had no bother mixing with my peers none whatsoever.

But I remember in those days, the shops weren’t like they are today, and there was a big open space, fairly close to the school and every so often a circus would come along. And this particular time it turned out to be Perry Brothers and they had their lions and what have you there. And I remember the name of the lion tamer, Eric Fliger

and on this occasion, he was trying to get one of his lions out into the big circle that they have, that they chase them around in and let them do their tricks. And apparently he got the wrong one out, and he came out of the cage himself and he’s talking to somebody, and he went back in and as he went back in, he went in in a real hurry, more or less run in, slammed the door behind him and the door didn’t close. And the lion went in and came out amongst

everybody. And my mate and I were sitting on the front row, and there’s the lion heading right for us, and I think one of the clowns actually grabbed the lion by the tail, but he didn’t hang on long. But the lion didn’t worry him, he’s just coming towards us and we didn’t know what to do, we were absolutely frozen stiff. And at the back, up the very top a chappie who I knew well, deaf and dumb, he fell off the back rail.

The local baker shinned up one of the monkey poles, up one of the poles, the taxi driver flew out and hit the ticket box and just spread it flying. Anyway the lion turned and went back out the other way, and half of Springvale stayed awake that night. There was a couple of cars going around with guns and they were looking for it and they never every found it. But then in the morning it was asleep under a hedge near the railway station, on Lightwood Road,

and he, they got it into the shed quite easily apparently and then they backed one of the circus trucks up to it and got the lion in it and it was all over. But it hit in the headlines there for a day or so. But we were taken home by a fellow, fortunately, but the chappie who run the picture theatre, he saw them all coming to get into the picture theatre, and he closed his doors and locked us all

out, he wouldn’t let us in. But no, it was quite a commotion in Springvale. But that type of thing didn’t happen often anywhere does it? But the normal schooling and you had your fights. Actually when I first came out from England, I was pretty broad in my speech and the kids used to get me in a circle and just make a joke of it, laughing and picking me,

cause I was only very small, and I’d go home crying. Anyway I had an uncle who didn’t believe in boys crying, and he said, “If you come back crying any more, I’ll give you something to cry for.” He was only about 10 years older than me, more like an elder brother, I thought the world of Tom. But anyway, he helped me and he showed me how to look after myself and I was pretty small, but I had no bother. After then I took some hidings but I

gave some, and doesn’t take long and you iron yourself out. My mother never had to go to the headmaster and complain about being picked on or anything else, because if I got picked on, even if I got a hiding I was able to sort of make them feel well at least we’ll leave him alone, because they were getting it too. But apart from that, that didn’t last long, I got on well at school

and really happy. I hated school but I never failed an exam. Got on well with the headmasters, and one hit me for nothing, but I still liked him. I joined a group of boys there at the toilets, they were standing there, what they’d been doing before I actually got there, I don’t know. But I no sooner joined them and out came the headmaster,

marched us all into his office, said, “Hold out your hands,” and he gave everyone 2, but I pulled my hand away and finished up getting 6. So I never pulled me hand away after that.

Not long at all, not long at all. When you’re about 5 and 6 years old it doesn’t take you that long. And cause

you’re mixing with so many too. No, I had no bothers there really, it was just when I first started, and kids can be cruel, I suppose to some extent I was to. Mother actually went to the headmaster about me later on.

I was just getting their kids after school if I didn’t like them and give them a hammering. But no, I

did quite a lot of that really until I left school and then I really quietened down. I only had 3 or 4 arguments after that.

Well you were allowed to light your own crackers in them days. And I never heard of anyone actually getting hurt, but then again I suppose they’re more powerful today, or well they seem to be.

But there was no restrictions and we had a general ball all round, and I was allowed to have ferrets. And we used to go away ferrying nets, make our own nets and go away on our pushbike, we’d ride through Springvale up as far as Loch, you know where Loch is? And Woodleigh, little place – the trains used to run through there in them days. Mind you, I was about 16

then 15, 16, and this particular farmer, the rabbits were that thick coming down the hills that even with a .22, and I was underage but we all had them, and you’d go out, not every time, it wasn’t every second time, but it wasn’t rare, you’d shoot a rabbit and you’d go up and there’s 2 lying there, but with a shot gun you’d get 2 and 3. The hills were almost literally moved with them.

But this farmer, we never went around shooting holes in tanks and things, his wife used to get our bread for us. So we’d stop up there maybe holiday time a couple of weeks, and he’d give us our meal and we’d feed his pigs on the rabbits. But no, I sort of had an air gun when I was 12 and that’s a bit early I think, but even so we were under instruction, they were

always watching what we were doing, and just firing at targets in the back yard. But you could do that, I could walk through the streets, I don’t mean the main street but the streets of Springvale, I’d come home from work when I first started work and you’d find that Mum would have a cuppa for me and I’d just grab me rifle and 2 or 3 bullets, I’d go over the back. Because there was poultry farms there and market gardens, that was the main part of Springvale. And you would

find that you’d be sitting there and in the evening the rabbits would start to come out, and even through you’d just shot one they’d go back and within 10 minutes they’d be coming out again and you’d get your second rabbit, that’s enough for tonight and then you’d go home. I’ll tell you what that was one of the main meats we had during the Depression, you got that way whether they were baked, fried, boiled, curried, they still sort of smelt like rabbits,

we were getting that many of them. But no, I had a good time growing up. I had friends in Oakleigh, they were next door neighbours for a while and they went to Oakleigh. And I used to walk from Springvale to Oakleigh, I loved walking, and it was no bother to me, I’d just walk all the way down there, take me the best part of three quarters of an hour or so to get to Oakleigh. I’d walk along the railway line, but no

I did have a good time growing up. We, it was, there was a team of us, they’re all dead now, every one of them. But till girls started to come into the picture that’s what we used to do, just all go off together. A mate of mine, he bought an old T model Ford for 5 pound, and I’ve got photos of it there with rabbits and guns sticking out of it. And we never got into trouble, and the police

never ever worried us. But we sort of kept out a little, you know we weren’t flaunting the guns, but we were all under age at that time.

16 when I got me first .22. But see I grew up with them. My Dad was dead, actually it was about, I was 14 when Dad was killed, 14

I’d have been 15 in the next January and that was October. And eventually, Mum married again and got a lovely stepfather. He wasn’t a bad sort of a bloke, in fact he bought me my first .22. But no, we really enjoyed growing up, you know it was sort of countrified you could camp most anywhere, there was no signs no camping here and that sort of thing, and

I think I grew up in one of the best times more or less, almost that we thought as teenagers that the world had ever seen, it was lovely. Just prior to the war, 2 or 3 years, really good. But I don’t know whether it was because I was sort of used to fire arms and that sort of stuff, when I joined the militia, I was trained with the Vickers machine gun,

with the Lewis, Bren weren’t in there. I was seriously thinking up to war broke out that I might even go to the Civil War in Spain, and I toyed with that idea. I toyed with the idea of going as an Instructor over to China, but that didn’t eventuate, we had our own war.

You could do that. You couldn’t just sort of, off the street do it, I would have had to make enquiries, gone to the Chinese Consul, and that kinds of thing and made enquiries. They may not have even let me go, they may have even said no straight out, I don’t know what they would have done. But I was thinking very seriously offering my services.

Oh yes, oh yes.

Yes the news covered virtually

everything, particularly so with the Spanish Civil War. See you had Mussolini and Hitler backing the Franco and then you had the International Brigade who were volunteers there. The idea, I’d have made a good Al Capone in those days. But I guess I was just a bit too much inclined that way. I

had a friend of ours, who came over on the same boat as us actually and is just living 3 or 4 doors down the street. Her husband had a old Winchester Repeater, action barrel, and she said, “Albert,” she said, “you can have this, not to keep.” She said, “If anything happens to me, its yours.” But she said, “It was Dad’s and I don’t feel like giving it away.” But she said, “You can have that.” Then I had

the one that my stepfather bought me, model 41 Remington, fairly long barrel, but was a beautiful .22. I had a 4, 10 shot gun, I had a Harrington and Richardson 12 gauge shot gun, I had my own .303 in the Dandenong Rifle Club, I had my army .303 from the 52nd Battalion. And a mate of mine,

who we used to go around a lot, he left and went to Cheltenham, he came over to see me on his bike one night and he said, “Albert,” he said, “would you like to buy a .45 revolver?” I said, “You’re joking?” He said, “No I’m not,” and he pulled it out of his overcoat pocket. I said, “What do they want for it?” He said, “2 quid, 2 pound,” and (UNCLEAR) goes with it. So I found 2 pound, and I owned a .45 revolver,

which was strictly against the law. And he pulled out a little automatic that you could almost hide in your hand, and said, “I bought this one.” I said, “Off the same fellow?” He said, “Yes.” Well he was a bit silly with it, he used to have it in his pocket loaded and this night he was driving his wife home or somewhere and she’s more or less steering and he’s playing around with it

and it went off. And he could have shot her easily, but he never did it again, he finished up he sold it. But he also sold a .22 that he had to a fellow and the fellow took it home and shot himself. The police came round and visited him and asked him questions, they didn’t hold it against him, you didn’t need permits or anything else to sell them, it was just easy. But we could get all the ammunition we wanted from a place called

Small Arms, they’ve gone now. But would you know the old tin shed on Elizabeth Street? Nearly opposite that, just going up from the station, just over Little Bourke Street on the left hand side, there was a shop there called the 6 Little Tailors and then next to them, I think it’s a disposal shop now, but that was called Small Arms. And we’d go in there, and just the first time was a bit shaky

you know we were a bit nervous, but we had no trouble. We just tell them what we wanted, they’d get it and we’d just sign the book, somebody else’s name and address and we’d get it. Which is absolutely wicked to think that they sell it to kids like that, cause they knew roughly our age and they knew we weren’t going to do any good, it was strictly for revolvers. Anyway, that was the sort of life that we were living, you know

as kids.

Yes.

Well, essentially we stuck together. There was always 2 of us, people thought we were brothers, didn’t look alike but

they thought – we were so often together. Then one day on Springvale Railway Station, this kid came up to me he said, “Excuse me, are you Albie Bolton?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “They told me you do a lot of rabbiting and shooting and that?” I said, “Yes, we do do a bit.” Ron Conroy, the chappie that thought we were brothers, his father used to cart eggs and he had a big truck, and at Christmas time he would take us down to

Woodleigh, onto this farm, and the railway used to run through there then, and there was the Bass River goes through. And we used to take down an ordinary one fire stove, you know the type of thing I’m talking about? It’s a little stove you feed it in and the oven alongside, they were all the go before gas and that sort of came in. Anyway, we dig that into the side of the creek and we used to cook rabbits and do whatever we wanted with it,

in fact we used to even shot star cod, you know how star cod goes around in big mobs, and we’d shoot them and we were even eating them too. But this Steve, who bought the revolver to me, he was the one who was talking to me on the station, and he said, “Could I go out with yas?” We said, “Yes, we’d be pleased to have him.” But that was 3 of us then and we were more or less inseparable,

we joined the peace time army, I was the only one silly enough I suppose to go overseas. They stopped home. But anyway there was others, there was the chappie Big Jack, there all dead, every one of them, it’s unbelievable isn’t it? He bought the Ford and I was working at Healings and I was able to turn up bushes and things it needed. It was in good

condition but we altered it a little bit, Bernie the blacksmith, Bernie Blanco, Freddy Carroll, he’s gone, they’re all gone, every one of them. And we used to go down together to Athlone near Drouin, we’d go there and stop there for days just fishing and shooting. And oh if we’d go down on our pushbikes, normally it was just

overnight we’d go. But we’d put our ferrets on and our nets and off we’d go. And it was a life that very few kids today know anything about unfortunately. And I’ve got 2 grandsons and they weren’t the slightest bit interested in that. But anyway we used to go off and Noble Park used to be called Struggle Town in those days, and there was

a few gangs from Melbourne moved out there, and it was a bit rough. Today Springvale can nearly be called that I think, rather than Noble Park. But anyway when we were giving out the, I told you about the coupons giving out. We would meet in Windsor at the Sanitarium depot and they would take us out in cars and the chappie in charge would give us our allotted areas,

and we would walk, I’m not exaggerating, 20 up to 20, 27, 28 mile a day just walking around giving out coupons. But fortunately, it didn’t matter to me because I’ve always liked walking. We were in North Melbourne, I don’t know exactly where now, but the houses were all maybe 5 or 6 feet from the footpath, and just a little bit of a veranda or what have you in front. And this chappie, I

got him his job there, Eddy Smith and I were together when this, oh there’d be about 8 or 9 at least of them, coming down and they were all about 18, 19 years old. And they were intent on doing us over one way or another. And we got in there and we closed the gate and as they were trying to open it we were kicking at their hands and that, they would have got us and belted us up the way they were going. But fortunately, the chappie in the car came round and he told

them what he thought of them and abused them. Anyway he got us out of it, so we got out of it all right, but that’s the only problem we ever had in any way shape or form with these mobs and gangs, but they were certainly about. Squizzy Taylor was going around in them days.

Well,

there was no police between Dandenong and Oakleigh, and Springvale it had about 4 moves since I was a little kid. But that particular time we had a fellow called Stan Field, 2 of his boys joined the police force, or many years later. And he’d sooner have a fight than a feed. And he was the only policeman between Dandenong and Oakleigh, and he did a pretty good

job. But no I can’t personally put my finger on any problems with the gangs, no.

Yes, it wouldn’t be the sport of any children I had today, believe me, I’ve totally altered. But in those days, no I used to play footy at school, and for a couple of years or so I’d go and watch an occasional, because in those

days Springvale was Springvale players, Noble Park was Noble Park players. They weren’t importing others who’d never lived in the area, and it was kids that I’d grown up with. But I didn’t very often, I wasn’t really interested in footy. I got me nose smashed playing cricket when I was a kid, I missed the ball and took it full in the face and that sort of ended my cricketing ambitions. But no, we just did fishing

and shooting. We didn’t get into a mischievous with it, in fact we always welcomed, like I said on that farmer up at Woodleigh, no we got on well with the people.

No, no. I did have an adopted sister that actually my father

and Mum adopted. But when he died and Ernie Pool was my stepfather’s name, he sort of took her over completely, like just as if he was her Dad, naturally. She was always sort of know, cause she was only a matter of months old when my Dad was killed, she was known as Edna Pool, virtually her whole life.

But we don’t see each other now, she’s, things happen you know, I won’t go into that.

I’ve got nothing against her, she apparently did have against me.

Well it wasn’t, actually we got good money, they paid 25 shillings a week. We had to put them under the door, we weren’t allowed to put them in the letter boxes. And Sanitarium supplied the coupons, then when they were redeemed

at the grocer shop, the grocer got a penny each for the coupon plus replacing the free packet of Granos or Weetbix or Marmite, whatever it was. And quite often, the grocer would try and buy them from you because they made money, they’d get an extra packet of Weetbix plus a penny for the coupon. I’ve never know anyone actually, I know some did,

but I don’t know them, never met them, or never been told by them that they did that. But going around, around Brighton and they were pretty strict. The chappie that drove us would go round occasionally checking up, making sure that they were put not in the letterbox under the door. And I walked into this place, and it’s got – beware of the dog on it – anyway, I went in and put me coupon

underneath and I’m about, it was one of these big mansion sort of places, I was about half way out and 2 great Airedales come at me. Well I didn’t have, there wasn’t much on me in them days, I was pretty small and not big now. But anyway they got me and between the 2 of them they rolled me over, they wrecked me clothes, they’d totally wrecked me clothes and I got some bites. Anyway the woman came out screaming, “You silly

little fool, you silly little fool,” and her son, I took it was her son, came out with a case in his hand, “Be quiet mother, be quiet mother.” Anyway, they got the dogs off and then he patched me up a bit, he could have – the case he had – he could have been a doctor, I don’t know. But I tell you what, I was very careful from then on going into these yards. But we certainly travelled

some miles just doing that sort of thing you know. But that was my first job. We had a poultry farm incidentally, not a big one, but about 100 yards on Royal Avenue from where the court house and the police station are today. And I only recently, very recently, the folk next door took, we took them actually to one of these smorgasbords, and while we were down there

he drove me around and we had a look where I was. I’m sorry I went, it spoilt Springvale for me, it’s altered that much. And on Royal Avenue, where we were, there’s literally mansions that certainly you wouldn’t get it for $1 million some of them, it’s unbelievable. And all I could sort of visualise was where I used to go fishing, where I used to go shooting to get me couple of rabbits every night, and all this is there now, its altered. The firm I worked

for years later, Kelly and Lewis……….

Well, just before my father died, I was travelling down to Beaumaris with him, we used to go by pushbikes, it was easier than going all the way into Melbourne and then right round, and I actually started to cough

and I spat up a bit of blood and he saw it, cause we were side by side. And he sent me straight home and said, “Tell your mother to take you straight to the doctor’s.” Well it turned out I had diseased tonsils, and they put me in hospital and took them out and they nearly lost me. This sister had to sit up all night with me, with these tweezers pulling clotted blood out of my throat.

But anyway, I got over that all right. And then I went to work on a poultry farm, Dad said, you can get out in the open a bit and more or less brick laying in the open. But I went working for this poultry farmer on Clarks Road, Springvale, a chap called Hemmingway. And he knew Dad, Dad used to fill in for him at Christmas time so he could get a break and they’d go away. But anyway, I went working there

and you’d start at 7 o’clock in the morning, you would turn the taps on, fill up all the troughs with water while, it was a big farm in them days it was only about 3,500 birds, but those days it was quite a big farm on 10 acres. Anyway, he’d be mixing up the hot mash and when I’d done that, I would take the hot mash around and then I’d have to go down and cut

corn, maize down the bottom, bring it back on a little sledge, put it into the hand chaff cutter, cut it all up to get it ready in the tins to take out. By that time from memory I think we had to pick up the eggs. So we’d all go round and get on the eggs and you’re only suppose to pick up one at a time, but occasionally I’d have

3 or 4 eggs, and he caught me. He wasn’t very happy but he said, “I don’t want to catch you again doing that you might crack them,” you could too. Anyway I’d take them into the girl there that he had there just doing nothing but washing eggs. And you’d fill in your time till lunch time, get an hour off for lunch, then go round and fill up the water trough again, then if there was

any work like cleaning the perches or cleaning out where the chickens were you’d do all that, till it came time to gather the eggs. You’d go and get the eggs again in the afternoon, then feed them with wheat and that. Then 5 o’clock would come around, you’d go home, 7 till 5 with an hour off, and Saturday’s you’d work 7 o’clock till 1, Sundays 7 o’clock till 10.

And I was getting 17 shillings and 6 pence a week, $1.75 today. Anyway, all my mates were working in Melbourne getting their weekends off and having a good time at the weekends, but this was wrecking mine. But anyway, in the end I talked it over with Mum, and she said, “Well, it’s up to you,” so my uncle got me into

Healings at that time, up near North Melbourne, on Franklin Street. And I told Hemmingway, anyway I said, “I’m leaving.” Oh he asked me why. I told him, sorry, I’m just going to digress a little bit here – he come up to me, on two occasions actually, the first time he said, “Chum, Chum Dunn,” he was the chap I went to school with, a couple of years older than me, he said, “He used to have this done before dinner

and then he could do that after dinner,” Well all right, I got that way, I could do it to. He came at me again and, “Chum did this,” and he come at it a third time well I said, “You better get Chum back, Mr Hemmingway cause,” I said, “I’m not doing any more. I’m flat out,” and I was flat out. He gave me a rise, instead of 17 and 6 he made it a pound a week. And I stuck it for a few weeks, and then

I said, “No, I’m going.” He wasn’t very happy that I was going, but still he had to get somebody else, he didn’t offer me any more money then. He told me one days he’s going to go into sheep, and I’d become a manager there, I could look after the farm, but that didn’t even eventuate for him. Anyway I went, and my uncle got me into Healings and I was working there then, I started in the radio. Now,

test cricket in those days was one of the big things for selling radios, particularly when they were over in England or anything, they’d always have a rush on and they’d put on more people for that time. I suppose Astor and different ones were much the same as that. Anyway when they sort of finished, they were starting to sack everybody, and I was on the 3rd batch to go. And I went up to see me uncle, he was in charge

of the heat treatment, I said, “I’ve just been given notice.” I said, “Do you think I could get a job up this way somewhere?” He said, “Go and see Mr Fry. I’ll take you around.” He was the manager, works manger, and he could work any machine in the shop. It didn’t matter what it was, old Fry knew all about it, and he got me a job in the paint shop, painting bikes and this sort of thing. I

wasn’t doing that, I was just sort of helping to do it, because that’s a trade in its own. And then when they’re all painted and that they put them in the big ovens to bake it. And I was there for a while and then they put me down onto the polishing, emery wheels. Well that’s no good for anybody, they used to give you a pint of milk a day and reckon that would sort of get rid of all the rubbish that you were swallowing. And I was there for a while. Anyway I finished up

pretty sick on that, anyway I stopped home for a while and then they took me back on again and put me into the handle bars, bending handle bars. I don’t know whether you known what a Major Taylor is? It’s the old fashion ones you’d got to have it up or down and just around and I had to get them ready for the welders. And they had 3 benders and 3 welders and me just preparing them. And the foreman came up one day and said, “Albert,” he said, “you’re working too hard.”

He said, “Go slower, go slower.” But I enjoyed me job, I always enjoyed it, it was no trouble to me. And then he came up another time and he said, “Look we’re getting another chap in to help you,” and they got another fellow in to help me. And he finished up he said, “Look,” he said, “The two of you are talking too much.” He said, “The both of you aren’t doing as much as you were doing on your own.” But we couldn’t cut it out; we just sort of kept talking. So they took the other bloke away and I was back on me own

again. They didn’t sack him they put him in another department. And I was there for quite a while and then they put me into, on the lathe, turning and fitting on an old capstan, and I was there for some time and this Mr Fry, in those days they had a stop watch held in their hands and they were checking you all the time. And the unions didn’t do anything about it in them days. But anyway, he saw me there one day and I was making judging pins

for cars, and he’s watching me and he came over and he said, he called everybody son, didn’t matter how old they were, “Move on sonny,” in his good clothes and he’s took over and done a few, “Here you are,” he said, “Can’t you turn them out like that?” I said, “It’s all right for you Mr Fry,” I said, “here I’ve got to go to the toilet, I’ve got to go and get me tools sharpened.” He said, “Yes, but you’re doing it all the time.”

He said, “I’ve just come in and done 2 or 3.” He said, “Once you’ve been doing these you know you can go a lot faster.” He was quite right, you’d get into a system and you’d knock them out like shelling peas. But I was still doing what I thought was a pretty good day’s work. But anyway he never ever came back he never went crook. But on one occasion there, the fellow called Ted Chilton and we were in the toilets there and we were just washing our hands, just

a bit earlier than we should have been that night. Lo and behold in he come, “What are you doing here sonny?” I didn’t know what to say, I had soap up to the elbows, I said, “As a matter of fact, Mr Fry,” I said, “I’m just washing me hands.” He said, “You Ted,” to the other fellow cause they knew each other well and they were both English but they’d know each other for years, “You Ted,” he said, “I’m surprised to find you here?” He said, “Not half as be surprised as I am to find you.”

Anyway, he went out he never said any more. But anyway, I got on well with him, really well with him. But I went back to another, at the time I was not too good, I went back to another poultry farm on Tootals Road, Dingley, just out of Springvale and I managed the farm there for the bloke for quite a little while. But I got a call back,

you can come back to Healings if you want, there’s a job for you. Anyway I went back, no sorry, before I went back there I got a job with a blacksmith down Springvale Road, I was his striker. And I worked for him for some time for 17 and 6 a week. And he had WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s, five or six hundred of them, and in my spare time, you didn’t get much spare time, but in my spare time I had to go and pick

up the eggs and look after the WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s and wash them and everything. And I got a telegram from Healey’s asking me could I go back. So he paid me and that was the Friday night and I started work at Healey’s on the Saturday morning. But I wasn’t going to go 3 mile back on me pushbike just to give him a couple of bob, I thought I’ll just finish up and ring him up, and tell him that I won’t be coming. But Mum said, “No, that’s not right,” she said, “He’s

paid you up for tomorrow morning.” So I had to get on me bike and go down and he took 2 and 6 off me lousy 17 and 6. But he was a nice old bloke, but he was, you know, in fact he used to have the WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s in there, his wife wasn’t living with him, he lived over at Kings Way somewhere, but he’d have the WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s in the house and it was a terrible mess in the place. But anyway I went back to Healey’s into the

sheet metal and I was there up to the war broke out making wireless chassis and tool boxes, all sorts of stuff like that. And I thoroughly enjoyed that, you had to make out your own, cut them, bend them, you know weld them up, and that was really good, and I stopped there then until war actually broke out.

Yes.

Springvale.

Travelling, yeah about 40 minutes, 42 or 43 minutes from Springvale to Melbourne. And then I used to, normally I would walk up rather than pay tram fares, I would just sort of walk up. And if I was a bit late or something like we’d do it. But I got another kid a job there when I first started at Healey’s

and him and I used to travel together. And we’d go early and we used to clown a lot the two of us, we’d – on your own you wouldn’t, but two together we’d sort of muck around a lot. But on Lonsdale Street on the south side opposite St Francis is it? I think it’s the Catholic Church there, St

Francis I think it is, and Myers had a big building but it’s gone now, and what they call Malcolm’s Blue Bird Shop, he had all these pets. And we used to go in there everyday, we must have worried the life out of him, but we’d always go in and look around. He had snakes and lizards and everything there and one day, we used to catch gold finches and get them out of the nest and rear them, and we said to him, “How much would you give us for

goldfinches?” He said, “If you kept them a couple of weeks or so, I’ll give you 3 shillings a dozen.” I said, “You charge 3 and 6 each for them here.” “That’s business, that’s business. Get out, get out,” and he scooted us. But we finished up later on we went back again and he put up with us. But you could sort of play around and do all sorts of things in Melbourne, it was good. You’d see the blokes going round and picking up butts and everything else,

put them in tins. And the tobacconists themselves used to buy them and they’d have jars of cheap tobacco. And they’d sell it to people, what these blokes had got out of the butts.

No bother at all. And

when we went on bivouac or anything like that, the firm used to let me off, most places did. The government, I think, they sort of encouraged them to do it, but no we had no bother. And was it once a week or one a fortnight we had to meet – I’m not sure once a week or once a fortnight we had to meet in the drill hall, training that sort of thing. So that’s how I started on the machine guns, I get to know them you know.

But then we would have a camp, a big camp once a year up at Trawool. Mornington was my first camp with them and there the Tanti Hotel, I think its still there isn’t it?

You don’t know. On the main point of road going through. But anyway no we had not trouble getting time off, none at all, they were quite happy to let us have that time.

Mainly, we would have manoeuvres, small manoeuvres and you’d be travelling all over the country, walking around. On one occasion we were down there and they’d put out warning signs everywhere that they were going to be shooting out into the bay, and I was on with another fellow and we had to learn morse

code, I never liked that and I never used it, I had to learn it for the AIF [Australian Imperial Force] too, but I never liked it and we never used it, we were just straight out talking over the radios. But with that day another fellow and I were on the telephone right overlooking the water and there’s a fellow rowing a boat out into where the firing area was. We nearly had

a heart attack both of us and we had a terrible job getting the message through, but we finally did and they stopped. And I don’t remember whether they sent a boat out after him or what, I don’t know. But we were using machine guns and in that area, he’d have had a boat full of holes. But they used to stop anything like that, give an area and a given time and the army would take over that area.

But they’d walk you for miles and miles and miles. And then back in camp you’d go – and its only a little bit of nothing really they, some of the meals were worse than I got when I was at the war, and talk about verdigris on the pans and things it was out of this world some of them. But

on this particular occasion we were having a stew, you know the little end bits of peas when there really really ripe, they looked like little maggots and we started it’s got maggots in it, and it went off and I’ll tell you what you don’t know many blokes couldn’t eat that stew, but we knew what it was because we’d started it. But it was a good time, good time, because you were mixing with everybody

and, but as far as getting time off was concerned it was no bother to me anyway personally.

Well, just one of those things I sort of did, I knew a few blokes in it. One of them actually quite a bit older than me, he was a labourer for my Dad, he’d

taken me to one of those, like the Edinburgh Festival, only in the showgrounds in Melbourne, the Tattoo, and I think that encouraged me quite a bit to do it. But it was just something I always sort of wanted, something that you, I wouldn’t want me own kids doing it now, I would hate to think – I’d like them to sort of live

a bit in the wild and get out and thoroughly enjoy themselves. But as far as having all those guns that I had and that, oh it was shocking really, we used to use them all, not at one time obviously. But some of the kids that didn’t have any, well I’d lend them one of mine, we’d get out. Actually not the 4, 10 I had but one I had when

I was working at Healey’s and this bloke, he knew we went out, he said he had a 4, 10 shot gun for sale, he wanted 2 pound for it, which was a lot of money then. And I didn’t want it, I wasn’t interested in it at that time, but anyway he bought it in and he almost insisted that I got and just use it anyhow and give me some cartridges. I went out and we used it, and I still didn’t want it and taking back into town

in the train I’d put it up in the rack, I got out in Melbourne and forgot all about it, but I still had to pay him his 2 full quid for his shot gun. But you could buy, I bought my single barrel Harrington Richardson, 52 and 6 and today you wouldn’t buy it for, I don’t think buy it for a hundred pound today, $100. I know a $100 wouldn’t look at it. My Browning automatic that I had

I had several .22, my Browning automatic I had I paid 73 shillings for it, and you could buy bullets for 15 shillings a thousand, well I mean that’s crazy today isn’t it. See we could go out and do 200, 300 bullets a weekend, put up targets and this sort of thing, just go through them like

nobody’s business.

No I don’t know that I sort of felt destined to it. But I felt that it would suit me, you know I could

go over there. I’d gone as far as peacetime army was concerned, I couldn’t learn much more there, could have been some, but to know much more about it you’d sort of have to be in action you know under those conditions. But I felt that if I get over there I might be some use and possibly being an only one, I had a stepfather, while I got on very well with him and that, and particularly well with

my mother, I don’t think I ever actually mentioned it to them. But I had mentioned it to some of my mates that I wouldn’t mind doing that, that when war came anyway that was an outlet for me, well I got to be. And if I, even if Australia hadn’t have come in, I’m positive I’d have got over to Britain, I’d have gone somehow. I just sort of felt that that

was in me, that despite the fact that I’d been in Australia all my life there’s just a sneaking little bit of England still in me. And I was telling somebody the other day – is there a man with soul so dead who never to himself had said, this is my own my native land, my country. And that sort of stuck for a long time, not now it’s gone now and I consider myself 100 per cent Aussie.

But there was just that bit there that, you know, I would have gone.

Pretty well, if you told the truth, sometimes you don’t.

Yeah, yeah and even looking back on it today

I still think that the war I was in was sort of justified. We know big business comes into it, we know there’s lies there’s all sorts of things told. But at that particular time it was moving along, we’d moved into the Rhineland and taken that part back, went into Sudetenland and finished up taking over Czechoslovakia, Austria, mind you they were more or less the one, I think he was sort of welcomed there.

But then into Poland and the way I was reading it was, if he’s not stopped he’s going to take more and he certainly, I don’t go along with these fellows who say that that Holocaust wasn’t a fact. In my mind there’s just been too much to prove that it was true and the man had to be stopped.

I don’t know that I go quite the same with Iraq, but I think Mr Bush should be stopped. But anyway no, I sort of felt that that was war. I can’t believe that Vietnam was right really, I think our fellows were pushed in there, but they done their best, they did a good job. But I felt that we sort of

just followed America like were doing now.

Yes I was at one of me girlfriends. Not really a girlfriend, well girlfriend yeah and I’d just been down to post a letter at the station for my mother, and I was going up to these people’s places

and I called around home first and I heard Churchill declared war, not Churchill he wasn’t the man then, Chamberlain. And I think he got a bit of a – he was a weak man perhaps and an appeaser, but I think he bought time for Britain, I think he give them that 12 months or so that was a big help. But then I saw

the (UNCLEAR).

Yes I heard him announce it. Actually it might have been him announce it when I was there, not Chamberlain, it probably was Bob Menzies actually, that I heard on the radio announce it. And it, we didn’t know whether we were going to be called up or not, we were actually but only for

home guards and something. To go overseas you had to volunteer separately from that, we couldn’t be sent any further than Papua in New Guinea, Papua was the boundary as far as Australian troops were concerned. And the 52nd Battalion had to provide guards for down around this area and Little Desert Short Wave Station, things like that. We sort of had to provide guards, I didn’t do any

of that, I wasn’t called up for any of that. But later on we had to volunteer.

I never really discovered one until I met the wife. I took a few out, I think I was fairly normal in that respect, we enjoyed our

Mates’ company and that and we had a ball of a time growing up, but occasionally we would take girls out and one Anzac Day, 3 of us, we dressed up in our uniforms and we went in just watching the march. And I don’t know whether we picked 3 girls up or 3 girls picked us up. But they stopped with us for the night and we went to the Glaciarium ice skating and that sort of thing until we came home, I never saw my partner again. The others

took their 2 out once or twice. But no I had a few girls like that that I took around, but when I came out of the army I joined the Masonic Lodge, and so many of my mates were in it. And anyway it didn’t really do anything for me and after 12

months or so I resigned. And then I heard that there was a Christian mission on down in Oakleigh and why I actually went I don’t know, but anyway I did go, came home and go changed and dressed, just on my own. Went down to Oakleigh, and it was in a big tent and the evangelist got up

and said his speech and everything else, and it turned out that the girl that was his pianist, she lived near me. And anyway I finished up, I walked her home and I’d been walking her home very since, and that’s Isabelle. But no, see the war cut such a lot of time out. Over in Adelaide,

met a young lady there and first night we decided we’d go out and my mate, one of them that we joined up with, we signed each other’s papers. Him and I’d been out marching all day long around the Adelaide Hills and we came home and one of the others of the 4 he’d heard we were there, see we’d all just come home from the Middle East,

and he turned up and we decided we’d go AWL [Absent Without Leave] for the night, we weren’t suppose to be going out. We made our beds up as if there was somebody sleeping in them and off we went. And we had a few drinks, just enough to make us sort of happy. Anyway somebody came in and said, “There’s a turn on at the Adelaide Town Hall for the returned men.” We found our way

around the Adelaide Town Hall, and it was the first night and there was two other volunteers and this young women came up and we started talking to her, and Alec the one that had just met the two of us back in camp, he introduced the 3 of us as brothers. Like I’d said we’d had a few beers, we weren’t drunk, but we just sort of didn’t care. Anyway, “Oh that’s lovely,” she went and got another lady who turned out

to be her aunty and they told everybody the 3 brothers met here for the night. And they said, “Won’t your mother be thrilled,” and this sort of thing, and we told her about the other one. The snookers had got him in Tobruk and he was dead, he wasn’t coming, but to think the 3 of ya are here and Alec gave his name, well Phil and I had to sort of go along with that name, got to be careful. But you’d wonder

how they’d think we were brothers cause we didn’t look anything alike. But anyway, we had a good night there and they got us to get up to sing, and we’d only sort of learnt it on the boat coming home, How I love the kisses of Deloris. Well we didn’t know all the words but we got up and sang it and they clapped and clapped, they were lovely people, and we sang it again and then that was it for the night, there was no more

singing. But this young lady invited the 3 of us home to her place the following Sunday for tea. As soon as we walked in, her father’s a provo [Provost – Military Police] “Oh dear, oh dear, we’ve got to watch what were doing here?” But anyway they give us a wonderful night they truly did. And I was going to ask the young lady would she sort of write, you know write to each other, but how can I,

that’s not me name, I was cut right off, I didn’t know what to do. And she was a real nice girl, I think, I’m pretty certain of this because I have made enquiries, I’ve got no secrets from my wife, she knows everything you don’t believe in having secrets in my cupboards they’d come out. But anyway I’ve asked people, oh Adelaide do you know

Prospect, yeah – you know Victoria Road, I remember the names years, 60 years after, yeah. They turned out they knew her family, she married a doctor, I’m pretty certain of that, and I understand that she’s Mark Holden’s mother, now that’s the singer bloke. Now whether that’s right or wrong I don’t know, but if it is he’s

certainly got a very nice mother. But we, that’s all we did about that, he cut me right off you know, settled everything, I couldn’t say me name was Elmore, I’d have never got the letters. But no, but apart from that I did take a few girls out, but I never really had a steady girlfriend until I met the wife.

She’s made sure I haven’t met any others. But oh well, we’ve been married nearly 60 years now, it’s not a bad effort.

Just that I felt it was the right thing to do. Mum didn’t want me to go in and that sort of thing. See, I told you the story of my father, my uncle and Nottingham was bombed with the Zeppelins during the First World War and Mum had seen a bit of it, and she’d obviously spoken to Dad and me uncle and them sort of things. But

she didn’t really, I was an only one, she didn’t really want me to go. But when she knew that I was in well she said, “I didn’t really want you to go,” but she said, “I’m pleased that you’re a volunteer and you haven’t been forced in,” that was her actual words, that she said, “I’m proud of you to think that you want to do that.” But

she didn’t want me to go. Actually, when I was in the Middle East in the desert there was several times I suppose I was being a bit smart, not trying to be, but we were being shelled and that, and I’m writing letters home and they’re firing over us now and this sort of thing. And me uncle wrote, don’t go saying them sort of things, he said, you’re mother’s ill, he said she’s worried sick about ya,

well, I cut it out and I bought a great stack of postcards from Cairo, the next time I got down that way and I was miles away from Cairo when I was sending them believe me. Just here enjoying meself and this sort of thing and I cut out that type of thing because it was wrong, it was stupid, cause she was sort of worrying home here and I didn’t realise that, the way she was.

So I just sent a lot of postcards, and showing her where I was.

And we went in, into Caulfield. Yes well there was an, in the 52nd there was an old sergeant major there, Lou Wells,

he was in the Boxer Rebellion, and we got on well with him the 4 of us. Anyway when we got into Caulfield low and behold there’s Lou at his job as sergeant major and he said, “I’ll look after yas, I’ll look after yas, I’ll do this, I’ll do that,” and he meant well, he really meant well but it didn’t turn out that way. He told me he said, “I’ll have stripes on you within a fortnight.” I never got

stripes. But anyway they wanted 45 volunteers, no, just before that Reg Danzie, the other one of the 4 of us from Oakleigh, he wasn’t there that very day. I went in on Anzac Day 1940, that’s when I became VX [service number] and Reg came in a week later, he’d been away somewhere. And they

were wanting a batch for England, and I was amongst that and so was he, we sort of fitted in there, but they got a telegram from somewhere, Pucka [Puckapunyal] probably, saying they only wanted so many. So bang, bang, bang, they numbered us off, stopped before they got to me but he got in and he went to England. And I had the relatives and everything, I said all sorts of names and goodness knows what, me grandma, aunties and them were still alive then.

But while we were waiting for that, they used to march us across to near Caulfield Tech there’s on the opposite side of the road there’s a hotel there, it used to be McNamara’s I think the name is, I’m pretty sure it’s McNamara’s. Anyway we stopped there, and we were allowed to go and have a drink but that was about all, and then sit outside and just sort of waste time waiting for the call to get in this and go. He went over in the forestry

but he finished up in Tobruk, and was killed there. Anyway we picked there one time they wanted another 45 volunteers, well you know how they pick volunteers in the army, they count them off. And they got 45 of us and I was – yesterday morning I sat down putting down those names and out of the 45,

I still well and truly remember 27 of them, I got their names there. But we were sent to Broadmeadows, we were in Caulfield for a fortnight that was all and then they sent us to Broadmeadows, nobody knew anything at all about us when we got there, and all we were doing was marching around for miles and miles, doing parade ground work and this sort of thing. And they bought in another batch

and Phil Burns he was one from Springvale that signed our papers he was in them and that was the nucleus for the 2/14th Battalion, and I got to know a few of them while we were there. But anyway, the chappie in charge came up, he’d found out where we were going, what were doing and he called us Mec Recs, we didn’t have a clue what Mec Recs were, it turned out Mechanised Reconnaissance. And they sent us away

to Sydney, and we went to Sydney Showground and we were there for some time, a fortnight or so and I got measles. We were going to go skating one night and low and behold I was smothered in these pimples and things and I got measles and I was sent out to Prince Henry Hospital at Little Bay and there

and I met a lovely nurse……

And then onto Sydney.

Well when we were in Broadmeadows, they didn’t know what to do with us. We, just 45 bods you know, that were there. We were there for the best part of a fortnight

I suppose, round about a fortnight, but all we did was parade ground work, form 3’s, form this, form that and marching us around. But it was just to fill in, there was nothing they could sort of put their finger on that we should be doing. Anyway they sent us to Sydney to the showgrounds in the old Anthony Hordern pavilion, actually it was, and it was cold and miserable and I got measles.

And they sent me out to Little Bay Hospital, Prince Henry, Little Bay Hospital there where I met that nice nurse. And didn’t give me much treatment there, but anyway I only had measles it was just a question of being quarantined for a little while, and the ward was absolutely packed with measles cases. Anyway

the nurses would be coming and going and we asked this particular one, she was like Olivia de Havilland, and I never told her that but I thought that, anyway is your name, she said, “I’m not going to tell ya me name.” Anyway there was another nurse there she was, she nothing wrong with her but she was sort of a

little bit quiet and simple, or it appeared that way and she wouldn’t tell us her name but she finished up one day telling us it began with J. Right, well the fellow next to me and me we were trying to work out all the Js, Jean, Jane, Joan and nothing answered, and he said, “About the only one we haven’t tried,” he said, “is Janet,” right as she came in.

I begged him, I said, “Excuse me, Janet,” and she stopped and spun round and said, “Who told you my name?” “Nobody told us.” Anyway it finished up we became nice and friendly that was it and the day came when I was discharged back to Sydney Showgrounds, and a fellow there Gordon Wallace, I don’t know what’s happened to him in the last few years, but he said, “Well go into Sydney Hall, I’ll jump

over the back fence,” he said, “and you go round and meet me,” cause I could get leave for that particular day. I did that and I’m telling him about it, we had a couple of beers, I’ve never really been a heavy drinker anyway, but I wouldn’t have done it if I hadn’t have had a couple of beers. And I’m telling him about it and he said, “Why don’t you ring her up and make a date?” Well I did that, and she accepted, she said she’d be pleased to sort of have – that lead to

quite a nice friendship for oh, a few months actually while we were up at Greta and everything. And I used to come down every second weekend to sleep in, I think it was Sussex Street I’m not sure, anyway they had these billets there, sleep there. And my first night out in Sydney on my own and I was wondering around, I didn’t even know where Sussex Street was, and I stopped and somebody

told me and he said, “How you off for money?” I said, “I’m all right.” He said, “You’re sure?” He was going to give me money, I said, “No, no thanks. I don’t want it. I’ve got enough to sort of tide me over.” Anyway, I took her out, we went to a couple of picture shows over a period and one day, oh we went to the zoo, she made Sydney for me, I was lonely in Sydney, terribly lonely. It’s hard to imagine you’re going to be lonely in a big city isn’t it,

but I was. I’ve never been so lonely in my life. Anyway we were going to go to the zoo, and we had a nice day there, lovely day there, and on another Sunday we’d been walking around and that and come dinner time and I didn’t have much finance on me at the moment, what am I going to do. Anyway we went to the, oh I never thought I’d forget that place, its one

of the posh hotels in Sydney. I thought, “Oh dear, I won’t be able to go in there.” Anyway we went in there and there’s captains and majors and everything else and there’s a poor lonely private there with this young lady. Anyway I asked her what she wanted and she ordered hers and she said, “What are you having?” I said, “I’m not hungry.” I wasn’t game to buy it, in case I wasn’t able to pay for hers, never mind mine. Anyway we did that and I paid for it and out we went, and

spent the rest of the afternoon in various places around Sydney, and I always had to get her back by 12 o’clock at night, and I took her back and the trams had stopped running and I’m right out at Little Bay. Anyway, a taxi pulled up and give me a ride in for nothing, which was nice, anyway we went back to camp, but that happened quite a bit and just before we sailed she wrote to me,

can I bring a partner, one of her nurses would like to come out with us. But the fellows had just gone around with the clippers cutting everybody’s hair off, crew cut. And I knew that was happening, so I had my done, but we had berets and I didn’t like taking me beret off anywhere, so I put her off, but unfortunately we sailed before I ever saw her again,

and I’ve called in a few times but I’ve never seen her since. But one spot there when we went to Greta Camp, we were only in Sydney for a couple of weeks, we went up to Greta, they were just building a new camp there, and where we were they called silver city, it was all galvanised iron. And a friend of mine, he’ll get a mention later on as a cook, he went in to this place where

they take names and addresses and billiard people out, folk are kind enough to have them for the day or weekend. And he standing behind a fellow at the reception desk in this bit of a hall, and he heard the following say, “I’m sorry we can’t take anyone this weekend were going fishing on Lake Macquarie,” he said, “Excuse me sir, did I hear you say fishing?” He said, “Yes.” He said, “Oh I’m a member of the

Greensborough Angling and Piscatorial Society.” The man said, “Oh, you can come.” And he was away, I knew nothing of this until he came back, anyway he made arrangement for me to go to that fellow’s brother and sister in law, they owned a foundry, Tickle Brothers Foundry in one of the suburbs of Newcastle. And they were a fantastic family, oh they were

marvellous, they more or less adopted me. Anyway we went there and I took another fellow, Larry McCall, and as soon as we walked to the place and knocked on the door she invited us in, and she said, “Now here’s the key to the front door.” Never met us before, She said, “There’s only one thing I insist on, if you not coming home for a meal, that’s okay, let me know.” She said, “I have meals on time,”

she said, “and I won’t be happy if you let me down.” I said, “My mother’s just as bad as that.” I said, “She governs everything by the clock.” Anyway we got on well, and every other second weekend practically I went there, took a different fellow each time. And they introduced me to soccer and that sort of thing, took us all around, they were English, and he’d have to be

the best ambassador for Newcastle you could ever come to. And being in a foundry he got us permit to go though BHP [Broken Hill Proprietary], the great big one, took us all over it an everything, cause they used to do contract work for them. They only had one boy, but he was about 14. Anyway we had a wonderful time with them and they used to send me parcels and goodness knows what in the Middle East. And

later on, when I was about to get married, I was still writing to them the whole war and after, I was the only one that continued the friendship after the war, and we had them down for 3 weeks, with the weekends. They wanted us to go and have our honeymoon in Lake Macquarie, but we weren’t able to do that. So

when we got a car, which wasn’t that long after, we went up there and then we bought them back here and we took them round Victoria over 3 weeks. And I took them into Springvale Cemetery, you been to Springvale Cemetery? Have you Col? It’s a beautiful cemetery, anyway she said afterwards, she said, “Albert’s taking us to a place like this at our age.” But she said, “I’ve never seen anything like it.” She said, “I’d like

to visualise something like this over the top of me when I’m in one.” She said, “Thank you for taking us.” She said, “It’s the loveliest cemetery I’ve ever seen.” I don’t know what its like today but I imagine its still very nice. And that continued on till well after the war, saw them every time that we came on leave, well it was only twice, and they come to visit me in Greta Camp, and

whenever she come, she bought a big hamper with a whopping big, oh bigger than that one, fruit cake, beautiful stuff. And we had a real ball there.

Greta, up near Maitland that way, Singleton way.

Oh 2 or 3 months, 2 or 3 months.

We left in the August to go overseas, so say 2 or 3 months. And while we were there we did a lot of marching too around there, but we had one armoured car and while we were there they bought in a Bren gun, we had been practicing on the Lewis. And instead of learning morse code like I was supposed to, I spent all my time on the gun, blindfolded, stripping them, and putting them together and teaching others the

same things and that was the only training that most of those fellows got, was the likes of me showing them. We never went to a rifle range, we never fired one round of live ammunition, nothing. I never fired a live round of ammunition in the AIF until I fired at the Italians, which I thought was appalling really, but was all right for me personally, cause it didn’t matter, I’d had training.

Anyway we used to get quite a bit of a leave of a weekend, occasionally get night leave and we’d go into East Maitland and have a night perhaps at the pictures, but we’d have concerts and that sort of thing. And we were intermingling them, see we were an Australian wide regiment, not like the 2/14th Battalion, initially all Vics [Victorians], the 2/14th initially all South Australians then. We had so many from Victoria,

we even had some from New Guinea, NGXs, and we all sort of learnt to join in which each other, they blended us in there. But I was fortunate, in as much as I did quite a bit of practice and training with the 1 armoured car that we had, but that’s all we did get. And we were talking over the air and some of them got us into a bit of trouble, it didn’t amount to very much,

but they were using bad language on the air, and other were picking it up and we were getting complaints and they started getting a bit strict on that, which they should have, which was quite right. But while there when it came to embarkation time or just before, they picked quite a few of us to fill in all the embarkation papers in this particular hut. And we didn’t know but right alongside, there was only a very thin

partitioning in between there was the Catholic padre. And 2 or 3 of them were, and I wasn’t in on this, I have some scroop of – they were overdoing it a bit with these jokes, they were filthy, in the end he came bursting in and abused the whole lot of us. And they weren’t all telling them, there was only 2 or 3 of them going on with these anyway he reported us to our CO,

and we were singled out at parade in the morning, called out by name and we went out, were going to face a, get a charge and it’s going to go before the brig [brigadier], well you can get 3 months for that, we’d have missed sailing and everything. Anyway at the last minute, he sent a message, he liked to see us. We were all paraded over to the padre

and he was quite jovial about it then, he said he wasn’t going to push it any further, and all the rest of it, but he said, “You’ve learnt me something that I didn’t know,” so I don’t know what ones he practices. But anyway, that was the end of that and we didn’t face any charges. And the time came and then they said, “Well you’re going,” and we got some extra equipment stuff, put us on trains, took us down to Sydney

wharves there, don’t remember which one, and there’s the Aquitania, 47,000 ton of it. The biggest boat ever I’d seen.

Mechanised reconnaissance.

Yes.

Yes, no, but I couldn’t have then.

Just before we actually joined the 6th Div [Division] Cav [Cavalry] Mechanised Regiment. Mec – Mechanised, that automatically means mobile tanks or carriers or what have you, Bren carriers, that sort of thing. And reconnaissance is you can go in and look at the situation and see if there’s any mid air and this sort of thing, you’re checking it out for the main body, it’s a reconnaissance.

and that’s about as good as I can tell you. I sort of know what it is, but that’s about as good as I can sort of tell you. And they told us we were going over to join the 6th Division Mechanised Cavalry Regiment there just before we sailed we knew where we were going. Oh we knew what we were going to. And they put us on board the Aquitania.

Oh it’s a big ship,

I’ve got a photo of it there, I’ll show ya after, well it’s a newspaper cutting, that one. But anyway took us over there and on board of course they have what troops have, boxing, inter unit boxing and a lot of two up played there. In fact, one of my mates, you’ll hear of him, I mentioned before he finished up, he and I were cooking for the fellows

for a few months, oh a few weeks. Anyway he was playing two up, and he was half full, he didn’t know what he was doing hardly and he’s wining hundreds of pounds. And he was coming up to me, “Here Bolto,” he said, “look after this.” He didn’t know how much he’d given me. I was getting that much that I told him, I said, “Look, I’m going back to the cabin.” You could finish up shark bait, cause you don’t know those Italians what – there’s some criminals in the army in that time.

Anyway, I went back and just stopped in me cabin the rest of the night and all his money. And in the morning, he didn’t know whether I had it or not, anyway I give it all to him, and we counted it all out, and he said, “It doesn’t matter if you do count it out really.” I said, “No I’d soon you do it, in case you remember.” We counted all out and he had a few hundred pounds that he’d won. But I’ve had a go at two-up

but I never did any good, I used to do better at poker. Anyway we finished up we got to Bombay, oh one of the troops got drunk and climbed up the top of the mask and fell off, hit the deck and was killed. I saw him buried at sea. They just put them on like a sliding slippery slope of wood and the flag over them and then

they tip it up and the body just, oh, they stop the engines or the propellers on one side in case it churns it up, and the body just slips down and it’s weighted and it just goes down the bottom. So I’d seen a burial at sea, but…

Oh, it would have to be a couple of thousand or so. I don’t know, I

never did really know but it would have to be a couple of thousand I’d say, it was far more than just those. But I’ve always been a pretty good sailor, well in those days. I got the job, I picked the job actually of dishing up the food, going into the galley, you see the cooks and that sweating pouring off them onto the food, and goodness knows what, and this other fellow, Jim Reed, never seen him since, but he was

a terrific bloke, New South Wales chap, one of the nicest blokes I’ve ever met. And he used to fight with Sharman’s troupe. You ever heard of Sharman’s troupe? Yeah, he used to fight with them, or box with them. And we got on exceptionally well, and we had no bother dishing up the food and eating it, it didn’t worry me and it didn’t worry Jim. Anyway, we got to Bombay and we got off the boat there, they gave us a day’s leave,

and as you’re walking around Bombay you see, well we saw, one woman carrying a dead baby, begging. She carried the baby around everywhere, and of course soldiers just off boats, they know that you’re not used to their custom and they’re selling everything to you, and goodness knows what, slip and slide blade knives and all sorts of things, trying to sell them to ya. Oh, if you want a shave you sit down in the gutter and they shave

you while you’re there, or give you a hair cut. If you’ve got corns they take them out, little pieces of bamboo hollow with like a little plunger in them, neat fitting, and they cut around the corn just till it just shows blood, they clean it a bit, and then they sit this on it and suck the plunger up creating a vacuum and suction. And then you

really want to hang onto them whoever’s – you pull them out and some of them have got that long a root, unbelievable, but it never comes back, they do a good job. And those fellows that do it have got badges of the different British regiments, and if they’ve got the badge that’s like gold to them, it lets them into the camp and they go round and do that. And while we were there, we walking down one area and a car pulled up,

and an Englishman poked his head out, “Excuse me fellows, don’t go any further down there, cause,” he said, “you might not come out.” He said, “We’re expecting trouble, big trouble.” He said, “Have you seen all the sandbags around the banks and all the big shops and that?” We said, “Yes.” He said, “Have you seen the Lewis guns mounted on the cars?” We said, “Yes.” He said, “We’re excepting problems. Look,” he said, “I’ve got a couple of hours to spare.” He said, “I work for Shell. Hop in,” he said, “and I’ll take you round and show you the sights,” which he did.

And he said, “I haven’t been back to Britain for 20 years.” He said, “I’ll have me holiday there in Burma over there,” I think he said Burma, “hunting tiger and things,” he said, “and I just enjoy life like that.” He said, “I’ve never bothered going back home.” Well he did that, he dropped us off and we went back then on board the boat.

Well they were trying to get home rule, this was in Gandhi’s day, Gandhi wasn’t a troublemaker, but a lot of

them were, and you just had to be very careful where you went and what you did. And we were in a camp there called Calava, just out of Bombay. And alongside it almost was a place where the Pakis [Pakistanis], I think it was the Pakistanis, they don’t bury their dead, they take them up the top and they lay them on – they’re all like I think it’s wood, all across and the crows eat

all the flesh and the bones just melt down and that was near us. I never went up and had a good look but that’s the general set up there with that. And if you want a good hot curry, I can’t stand it, but you get them there, really. And in the trees, you know our black crows something like them and if you’re not careful, whoosh and half your dinner’s gone. And we used to say, if you got a bit of bread they’d come and get that, then come back to wipe up the

gravy, but I’ve never seen that done. But yeah, they knock off your meals, just straight out of it, boom and they’ll take it off your plate. But then we got on this smaller boat, that was the Aquitania we were on, got on board the Orion, about 22,000 and the Kiwis who were in our convoy coming over, they were on board the little boat too. And we always get on well with the New Zealanders,

they’re just like family, more or less the same. Bit of boxing and that sort of thing went on and just general things there until we got to Suez, and as we were getting off into these oh like little boats, to take us ashore, the Kiwis all lined one side of the Orion, hundreds of them, hundreds of them lined and there was 4 or 5 saxophones

and they played the Maori’s Farewell, Now is the Hour. I’ve never ever heard anything, mind you situations alter it of course, but I’ve never ever heard anything like that, all those hundreds of men just singing that to us as we were going, it was absolutely wonderful. It almost sort of make you shed tears, truly, but it was beautiful. Anyway they took us then, and put us onto trains and we were

no sooner on the train, and I saw me Colonel from the 52nd Battalion, and said hello to him out of the train. Then they took us along up to El Kantara where you cross over the canal, and we got into other boats there, and they’ve got money changes all over the place, but they’ll fleece you blind, it’s unbelievable. You can argue with them and they give you a bit more, argue and they give you a bit more, but when you’re finished, you know that you’ve

been robbed blind anyhow. And the toilets aren’t quite the same as they are here in the trains, and in some of the hotels, then anyway, all you’ve got is two footprints in the ground, you put your feet on them, and then there’s a hole about that round and you’ve got to judge it and make sure that you’re right, and the trains are rattling and I’ll tell ya what there great toilets. But then they took us up to a place called

Deir Suneid, it was a new camp and we were in there and we started Deir Suneid…

Palestine. Yeah, that’s it, straight through Palestine from there. And we settled in and were just marching over the hills and this sort of thing. But I struck a cook there that was in the 52nd Battalion, and one I got on well with, he looked after me in

those days, and he always told me in the militia days, “The first person you get to know, Albie,” he said, “is the cook,” he said, “and you can’t go wrong.” And he proved to be absolutely right. He looked after me there and me mates, he done that. And when the day come for us to go out of there, he loaded up a couple of sandbags, there not that big, but there big enough, with food and

give it to me and he said, “Hang on, cause you’re going to need this where ya going.” He was the First World War man, a Cockney he was. Anyhow, while I was there I had a bad tooth, real bad tooth, oh it was driving me mad for a few days, anyway, I paraded sick and they sent me down, it was like a tent and a bit of a shed and that that was there, the dentist was in there. And I went in, “What’s your problem?” I said, “Oh I’ve got a shocking toothache, it’s driving me crazy.”

I said, “I can’t sleep with it.” “Let me have a look.” “Oh,” he said, “I’ll drill it and fill it.” I said, “I’d sooner you pull it out.” He said, “Artificial dentures are hard to get in the army.” “Oh,” I said, “I’d sooner have it out.” “I’ll be the judge of that.” Anyway, it was like an old bicycle wheel, he had his rope around to sort of get everything sort of turning to do me tooth, drill me tooth. Anyway he drilled it all out, “Now,”

he said, “the hole’s too big. I’m going to pull it,” I thought, “Dear oh dear, I put up with that.” But he only sprayed something in me mouth, made me tongue go sort of deadified and that. But I was outside for about a quarter of an hour and he called me in and he sits me down in the chair, grabs his pliers and everything else that he needed, I said, “It’s not dead.” He said, “How’s your mouth feel?” I said, “Me tongue’s all dry.” He said, “It’s dead.” I said, “It’s not,”

I said, “when I put a bit of pressure on it.” He said, “It’s dead.” Anyway, he fastened onto it and he’s tugging away, but I didn’t know it, the first words he said to me, “Do you mind getting up off the floor?” He said, “It’s terribly hard to get you from that angle.” I’d come out of the chair. Oh boy, he hurt, and he pulled it out without anything. Anyhow it took me about, he’d left a bit of shell in it, it took me about 3 months before that actually worked it

out, so I had a bad face. But by the time that was done, I’d left Palestine and we’d gone back to Egypt….

Just walk, we’d go on leave to Jerusalem, having a look around there. Tel Aviv, I was in Tel Aviv when the first Italian raid came on, and they’d sunk a big boat deliberately, not the Italians, the Jews trying to come in and Britain was only letting so many at a time, but the boat came in

and then rammed itself into the sand, so that it couldn’t get out of it, and then the Jews sort of were able to get off. But that was one of the things that the Ities [Italians] were tending to use as guide for their bombing and everything.

Well, they were lining up on this boat, apparently they knew what it was facing, and where to go from there

and that’s how they were dropping their bombs. But they didn’t do much bombing while I was there, very little. But we went back to Egypt and just north of Alexandria, sorry, south of Alexandria a place called Al Amiriya and Ikingi Mariut, it had been an Italian settlement with lots and lots of Italians in that area, but it’s just over

the lake from Alexandria, and we were there just marching around.

Only temporary, the base there until they sorted out how many reinforcements they wanted. I was in the first lot of reinforcements to go after the regiment, cause were already there and that was the base, you went there first and you were

just sort of there more or less buying time until they were ready for some reinforcements. And I was fortunately in the first of our batch that went up to the regiment. Anyhow they put on a big manoeuvre for the whole of the 6th Division, in Egypt, and we going around, some was the enemy and some weren’t you know just attacking, nobody was getting hurt of course.

Anyway it was during that that I got dysentery, and quite a lot of our fellows went down with it there, and oh you couldn’t walk say what 10 feet and you’ve got to go to the toilet again. Well you finish up, you’re carry a shovel all the time with ya, and they sent me to hospital back in Alexandria. And the doctor came down to see,

fortunately it was an English fellow next to me, he said, “He can’t speak a word of English,” the doctor, “But,” he said, “the first things he’s gonna ask ya is if you’re firm or loose. His next words will be, ‘How often?’” And he worded me up. Anyway when the bloke spoke to me, I just come out with this, anyway they take it away and sample it in oven and different things, and I was in there for, oh, about a week and a half

I suppose. There was a Scots Guardsman there and he showed me pictures of himself before he went in and he was a big robust fellow, and I tell ya what he was down to skin and bones, they couldn’t stop him going to the toilet. But I was all right, I got fixed up, and every time they wanted to go and raid food or anything like that, I was an Aussie and they’d come up, “You’ve got to be in on this, sport.”

And we were doing all sorts of things, going out and everything, once they stopped me going to the toilet I could get out and have a bit of fun with them you know. But anyway, we were put on a train bound for the canal to a very very big army camp, we didn’t know just how big at the time, another fellow and I, he was a signaller, and I could talk in morse but very

slow, cause I didn’t like it, and I never really learnt it, and we never used it in action. Anyway, lo and behold, they put two Polish soldiers from General Lander’s army, the Poles were fighting with us there, and we couldn’t talk Polish, and they couldn’t talk English and we sort of were just there smiling at each other. And we decided we’d have some dinner, we got bread, margarine and cheese, and

we pulled it out, we thought we’d share it with them, and one of the Poles grabbed our margarine and threw it out the window, oh dear, what are we going to have with our cheese now, anyhow, he dived into his kit bag and pulled out half a pound of best Australian butter, so we didn’t mind what had happened to the margarine then. Anyway, we’d had that and we were just sort of sitting there and one of the Poles see if I can whistle……it’s a call sign in morse,

I have a message for you, vekedi, they call it. Anyhow, as soon as he done that, particularly my mate because he was a good sig [signalman], I could just pick up bit cause they were going too fast for me, but they told us all about Poland, and how they’d come right down through Europe and that to get where we were then and we told them about Australia all about that. And that must have gone on for a couple of hours

and probably one of the strangest conversations anyone ever had you know, it’s just funny, I fell in a lot for this sort of thing. Anyway we got down to Ismailiyah and I don’t know where they went then, but the other bloke and I were issued in, and you can hire, oh it had its own theatre and everything, this big camp right on the canal. And we used to hire bikes and just sort of cruise around and have a ball. Didn’t

do very much else other than that, I can remember anyway that we really did anything spectacular while we were there. But the time came, I don’t know, it’s hard to say in times, could have been a week and a half two weeks could have been, but I enjoyed me stay there we were well looked after, and back to Deir Suneid, back in Palestine, back to the unit. Well I did very little there,

and I was called again, no sorry, I’m out of touch just there – when we left there we were sent to a convalescent depot, just out of Tel Aviv, called Kfar Vitken, and I met one of our fellows a chap who was one of the 45 actually, he was there, and we were there over Christmas, but there was an orange grove right alongside and him and I, there was about 12 of us in this big tent,

him and I would get over there in this orange grove just eating oranges and nothing else. And unfortunately they do give you wind and you have so many, oranges you never see them like this here, and grapefruit, I hate grapefruit but not there, they’re nearly as nice as the oranges. And the others would have to get out of the tent because of him and I. Anyway, the night Christmas Eve

and the Jewish people who were running the cinema, put on it, “Be it ever so humble, there’s no place like home,” and all this sort of thing, well there was an uproar, they had to stop it, everybody’s yelling out and carrying on, “Take that off, take that off.” We didn’t want that sort of music you know when you’re miles away from home. But I wasn’t, oh, we used to ride the donkeys up and down the beach, sidesaddle, just sit on them and the donkeys would go along with ya.

I’ve never had a camel ride yet, I don’t know why, but I didn’t. But the donkeys, Jack and I used to go out everyday on these donkeys. And we called into a place there, reckon they were selling steak and eggs, and we went in and bought a meal, well they cooked the steak but they put the eggs on it before they started to cook the steak, we did eat it, but

it wrecked the eggs, obviously they were well and truly over done. But just a few little things like that, that’s all that took place there. Then we were sent back to Deir Suneid and it wasn’t long there and I was taken from there back to the regiment, were in Egypt when I’d left, but they’d gone and they’d gone up through Mersa Matruh, and then south for 200 mile inland, to a oasis, the third biggest

in the world I believe it is, Siwa. And I was sent straight there and got to Mersa and I’m looking around and we went over the mosque, it was all deserted and climbed up the top and I reached out as far as I could, Albie Bolton, VX 13019

Springvale Victoria, and that was written up, sort of scratched into the white wall, and I never thought any more about it. Anyway they took us out in trucks, out to Siwa and we were there for, oh, only a matter of days, we had a swim in what they call Cleopatra’s pool, I couldn’t swim but you get in for a wash. But anyway I was sent out then to

Jerabub, that was an Italian fort about 90 miles from Siwa, that was in Nibeiwa. And that was virtually the end, I’ve got a video inside, The Lion in the Desert, Anthony……oh he looks like a Greek to even look at him, good actor……Anthony Quinn, and he takes the part, and it shows the Italians building

this the long, to try and confine the Arabs so they couldn’t get away, cause they butchered the Arabs there. And it would be as wide as my block, and it’s pretty wide and crisscrossed and everything, steel stanchions into the ground into cement and then way ward. We’ve actually seen wild ducks caught in it,

it was that, and you’d never get through it, we did but we had to what they called Bangalore torpedoes, there’s sections all joined together, pushed through and then exploded and we used to blow gaps in it to get through. Just occasionally, you get one where they could station troops and stop the Arabs from getting away from them, and its all in, a lot of it’s in that picture, in the video that I’ve got. Anyway we got out that I believe runs, I believe

I’ve never seen where it comes at Tobruk, but I believe it goes from………….

No, up to the way we are now, it’s just more or less as you’ve asked me to pass it along……

Well that’s what I say in that there’s none of this, it’s just the action part. But anyway you’re ready?

Anyway they took us then across to this Fort at Jerabub and there was approximately 2000 Italians in there, with their artillery and the rifle men, and what have you. And

we were in small sections of about 200 and…about a good 200 of us and we were in like utilities called Morris Bugs, Morris was the car, and we had in the back a steel arrangement like a cage so we couldn’t fall out, cause you’d be firing as you were going. Anyway, we were all in small sections in case the Italians decided to attack us, cause they

were overwhelming in numbers, but we’d surrounded them and they couldn’t get out other than by a plane, I think it was a Savoy, A 3 engine, I’ve got photos of it here, and that used to bring in their supplies, the only supplies they ever got in, and take out any wounded that they had. And we used to go in each, well not every day, but quite often and attack these out posts and do them over, but then they had artillery and they’d

drive us out of it. Anyway were sort of going along this line for quite some time, and on one occasion I wasn’t near him to hear it but I believe it, we had a Colonel Ferguson, very well liked and his son was with us too, and he said, there’s artillery and he said, “He would stand up and draw their fire and to observe it

too, see where it come from.” He stood up and he was invalided home. He must have stood up at the wrong time and they wounded him, but we would just do this, go in, they bought us one meal a day, hot meal a day, except when there was a bad dust storm from Siwa, 90 mile away. Looked after us very well but apart from that we just had to make do, fill up a tin full of sand,

pour petrol in it, light it and cook our own. And it come a time when, I don’t want to get ahead of me self here, they decided that 2 or 3 months out there was long enough it was time we took the place. We only had 2 Squadrons, B Squadron and C Squadron that I was in, C Squadron. A Squadron had gone up the coast towards Benghazi backing the rest of our division,

they had light tanks and carriers, we only had the Morris Bugs. Just like ordinary utilities, nothing armoured. Anyway they bought in, I think the 18th Brigade, it was 1 Battalion of the, oh maybe a bit back but near enough here, the 9th Battalion and

1 Company of the 10th, I think that’s correct. Anyway, when they were in they had sneaked up four 25 pounders, one night just before they came up, these four 25 pounders from the Royal Horse Artillery, British, and the Italians didn’t know we had artillery. And in come the Savoy bomber with the supplies and what have you,

just landed and the British opened up, one Savoy, and I showed you I think the photos of what was left of it, it never flew out, they hit it the first time. And then from then onwards we had artillery to back us and they then bought the infantry in, which certainly gave us a lot more strength, cause there was only a couple of hundred or so of us, and we moved in and it was all over in one day.

There was my number 2, a Lieutenant, Sergeant, there was four of us, I had the Bren. Anyway, we’re going along and our own Vickers pinned us in, we got too far ahead and our own, Vickers pinned us down for a while until we were able to get a message through to them. We have our vehicle following us in like a little valley wadi, and they got a message

through and we were able to advance then, just the four of us and ……

No, this was it. Anyway we didn’t do much reconnaissance up until Rommel came in, but anyway that’s a bit later. Anyhow we going along and Italian cut out of the hole and run across, and my officer

with an Italian gun that we’d captured, revolver, up and shot him in the bum and he was out of the way. Anyway we kept going on then, and there was a big group, oh here again I’ve got to digress a little. I personally accepted the surrender of twenty-five and twenty-six Italians about a fortnight before this. I was up on

lookout and they surrendered to me, just not a shot fired or nothing, they just give themselves up, and we’d sent them back. Anyway on this day when were going forward, we struck some fire from, they were behind these rocks and I was shooting at them, keeping them down but we couldn’t get them behind the rocks, these .303’s were just sort of bouncing off. Anyway,

a bloke who I knew well in them days, came up with what they call a boys anti tank rifle, it’s much more powerful, it’s armour piercing, anyway he said, “I haven’t fired a shot yet, I’ll come in here and have a few with you,” and he did alongside me and he’s knocking these rocks, and I opened up with me gun and anyway up goes my flags, they knew that they were going to cop it soon. So we went across the open and you could see the bullets, not see the bullets, but you could see

as they’re hitting the sand all around ya. Further back they were shooting at us. Anyway we got these lined up fellows and one of them spoke to me in English and I thought, “Oh that’s handy,” cause I said, “You can organise these.” I said, “What are you doing here?” He said, “I come from America on holiday, and Mussolini grabbed me and put me in the army,” so it was all over for him, he was happy. But there was an officer there

who’d come in and he had his epaulettes and everything on and his suitcase with all his personal things in it, and I said to this bloke, “I’ll make you a corporal.” I did this all on me own bat, it’s just there at the time, I said, “I’ll make you a corporal. Now line them up and take them back there.” And I pointed in the direction and I said, “They’ll handle it from hereon.” And the officer wouldn’t line up, he was quite surly, anyhow I poked

him in the stomach with me Bren and just ripped his epaulettes off. I tried to find, I give one to me number 2 and I kept one, and I tried to find one to show ya, but I can’t see it. Anyhow, he lined up then and he took them back and we went on and there was a bit more firing, anyway we got another batch and they give up, and we got a big, I think it was a Landy from memory, but doesn’t matter,

a whopping big truck, there was two or three like anti-tank guns, several machine guns, a stack of ammo, we captured quite a lot of stuff with them, and they surrendered too. So we just lined them all up and sent them back and we just kept marching on, and as far as my mate and I were concerned the war was over,

but the infantry, the colonel in charge of them wanted more artillery fire, he wasn’t satisfied with what he thought the results were, he called for more. He sent his runners around to tell all the companies and they never got to one company, and they moved at the normal time like they should have, before they were going to be stopped, and the artillery hit them and got about eighteen dead

of ours on that. What the Yanks call friendly fire today. But anyway, it was all over that day, but we had a Lysander plane, a very very old one, Lysanders are very old, and he was just doing a bit of spotting for us. But anyhow, this other plane came over, there was a dust storm blowing you couldn’t see that far – not a heavy dust storm, but it was limiting visibility, and up

in the air there’s this aeroplane with it’s red crosses we thought under the wings and it’s just very low, low and behold doors open up underneath it, it’s a German bomber and the bombs – this room, all that in there would fit into every hole it made anyway, that entrance was pretty big. And we just flattened at quick as we could, didn’t hurt anybody, fortunately,

and then it took off and it was sort of all over and done with for that day. We had a good wash, we were able to get to the water, we hadn’t had a wash for three months, and you could literally, on your hands you could literally peel the dirt off the back of your hands, like a skin. And the next day we were out, miles out, we’d followed some footprints for a way and we thought we might

pick them up, maybe somebody’s trying to escape, cause there going to get lost in the desert, not lost maybe but gonna be in a bad way, but we never saw anybody. So we pitched and we mounted our Bren, there was three Brens, two over further and I was the officer’s gunner and I mounted mine, put sandbags on the tripod to steady it and everything else, and lo and behold over comes an aeroplane. I think I told ya, those trees at the back of my house

about double the height, I had no trouble whatsoever in seeing the tail gunner’s expression on his face and I was ready to sort of, I could have cut him to ribbons, no trouble, I’d have got the aeroplane. But I was too, don’t shoot, don’t shoot, you’ll give our position away, but we didn’t have a position, there was nothing there for anyone to have seen it, we were just lucky that that tail gunner didn’t see us cause he was low, he’d have cut us to ribbons. But anyway….

Yeah, we were out in the open deserts, it wasn’t as if we had a special position that nobody wanted to see. There was no fortifications, there was no supplies, we were guarding no nothing, it was just us. And to my way of thinking, I’ve thought it for years, I’m glad I didn’t now, at least I never shot the man down, oh and his mates too, there was about six or seven in it.

cause it did come down low to that day. Anyway, he could have just cut us to ribbons.

The only German aircraft. I honestly believe it was the first German aircraft to get shot down in the desert. I would have to sort of see something really concrete to ever prove to me that that wasn’t the first German aircraft that was shot down, yeah.

And one of my mates, a fellow called Salvern from New South Wales, I was in touch with him about 12 months ago, just to see how he was, but he went out, the Germans walked in, two or three of them, the others were injured, and they came in and surrendered and said that they got men out there in the aeroplane wounded with the crash. Anyway, he went out with them

and the Germans all had Iron Crosses and they all, our blokes took them and he took one. Anyway, he got a switch back knife, oh all sorts of things, a gold watch, with two or three, you know how the old fog watches had different little covers on them. On the first one was a Frenchman’s name and how he’d been given it, and the German had captured him and then on

the next one he had his name and everything printed on it, and my mate got, he was going to do it, but somebody pinched it off him. Anyhow with him going out there and getting the iron cross, he was a bit sorry, you’re not suppose to take their medals and that off them, anyhow he went back to the bloke and said, “Here, keep it,” and the bloke said to him in English, he said, “I don’t want it.” He said, “It means nothing to me. Thank you for bringing it back, but,” he said, “you can have it. When we get in somewhere,” he said,

“we’re going to report all of these for taking them.” He got the Iron Cross and was able to keep it because he was nice enough to offer it back, but the others had to apologise. And you don’t hear armies sending them in to drop – this is the way we were taught. And I don’t care what they say about the Australians, there might have been some crummies in it but generally speaking, our orders and everything, and I’ll tell you than when we go into Syria, and he was able to keep his anyway.

And it wasn’t many days and then we were taken back to Mersa Matruh, and I was in the advance guard to go to a place called Helwan, about 20 minutes or so out of Cairo by the diesel train they had, and get the camp ready for the whole lot to come in. So now were back in Cairo.

Jerabub, 90 mile from Siwa and…...

200 miles south, approximately yeah. I never saw Tobruk, that was A Squadron that went up there. I come close to it the next time when Rommel come down. But anyway we went back through Mersa Matruh and back to Cairo and this Camp Helwan. And you

want me to tell you about that?

Well, we were there cleaning up the camp and getting it, it was an old camp, and old British Army camp, we were cleaning it up getting it all ready. And the first night, our officer said to us, Lapthorne, the one that had been with me all the time, he said, “You can have a night out on the town.” Well I went out with a fellow called Keith Weatherly, Don Shanks, my number 2 and I,

and when we got in there we met……Corporal Ron Saint from South Australia, we met him. And we talking to him, oh when we got in there we went to a hotel, I said, “I’m not going to drink anything.” I said, “I’m not having it,” I said, “I want to look around.” I said, “You blokes can do what you want, and,” I said, “I’ll look after ya.” So with that in mind I didn’t have a drink, they did but they weren’t full, anyhow when we met Ron,

he said, “There’s a Café Française.” He said, “I was there once before,” he said, “when we were out at Al Amiriya, and,” he said, “I went on leave.” And he said, “The manager’s a nice bloke.” He said, “We’ll buy him a drink and the rest of the night’s on him.” He said, “He’s terrific.” A Frenchman. Anyway we went around to the Café Française, had our dinner met the Frenchman, and like Ron said he bought him a drink and then he was giving us drinks.

But I still didn’t have any, I had me tea. Ron went off on his own, got full, fell in the gutter, well that’s where they found him, drunk, and he died of pneumonia. We never saw him again. That was the corporal, never saw him again. Anyway, we went there and then one of our fellows, my number 2 actually, wanted to go down and see the girls,

and he said, “I’m going down there.” I said, “Well I’m not.” Keith Weatherly said, “I’m not.” So we went off on our own and he went down to what they call the Burqa. That’s where the ladies of ill repute are. Anyway we’re around, come our first night, Cairo had a brown out and I started drinking, I’d never tasted whisky in my life ever until then, and I got

pretty full. And there feeding us on these salted peanuts, and we decided we’d go, no just before we went two British soldiers came in and him and I swapped badges, or one of them and I swapped badges. Give him one of me rising suns and he give me his, pretty sure I’ve still got that here. Anyway, Keith and I walked out and as soon as I hit the fresh air, oh boy, I wasn’t too good,

but he wanted to go and stop, he was a full as I was, he wanted to go and look for Shanksy. Well Cairo’s a big place, you can find out roughly where they are but you’d never pick him up, and it’s dark. Anyway, I said, “I’m not going, I’ll go back to camp.” “Well,” he said, “I’ll stop with you if you buy some more whiskey.” Well, we bought some, bought a bottle of it in another shop and he wanted… “No,” I said, “we’re not going to get it. You’re not going to get it.”

Anyway, we got back to the station, we got what they call a gharry, a horse and buggy sort of thing, took us back, and we were just full enough that we didn’t pay him we just scooted him off. We got on board the train with 2 Royal Air Force pilots, they were out at Helwan too, in an aerodrome near us, and they were talking about if we come around the next day they’ll take us for a ride. Probably wouldn’t have been allowed, but anyway I was too sick, I couldn’t

go. But anyway we got back there and I fell in a slit trench, it’s just about that deep, just to get you out, bombs coming down just below the surface. Anyway Weatherly got me out of that, he couldn’t undress me, but he got me back, I was too bad just lay down. And every time, the next two or three days I took a drink of water I was off again, oh I was crook. I’ve never touched it ever since. But anyway Shanksy come back, he

tried to undress me and give me up as a bad job but in the morning, he hadn’t paid his taxi, he’d come all the way from Cairo, hadn’t paid his, we only came from Helwan station, which is maybe 3 or 4 mile, we hadn’t paid, but he hadn’t paid all the way from Cairo and the bloke slept outside in his taxi. Went and reported him to the officers, and they soon picked him and he had to pay the bloke and got into trouble for doing it. And that was my number 2.

Anyway we were in camp there for a few days, a whole mob came in then from up out in the desert and the advance guard were given leave straight away, they were sent to Greece, as our advance guard. Sorry I was in advance guard, I mean they picked another lot, made them the advance guard,

fellows all going to Greece. And I was on the second day of a 5 day leave in Cairo, when the military police came along, we had the big rising sun on our berets, that was 6th Division, 7th Division and that had the small one on their berets, that’s the only way you could tell one from the other. And you’ve got to look to see that. Anyway the military police coming round in this utility, and they saw us.

“Got to pick you up, fellows. You’ve got to go back to camp.” “Why?” He said, “Rommel’s advancing with all his men from Tripoli and he’s coming down towards Egypt.” Our equipment was worn, virtually everything, so they took all the equipment of the 7th Armoured Div, give it to us and sent us back into Libya again, up through Mersa Matruh. And on the way up,

there’s a conductor just sort of walking through making sure everything’s all right, an Egyptian in the train, and I offered him one of my buttons for one of his. It’s got a, I’ve got it there, but it’s got a steam train stamped on the button, no, no he wouldn’t. Anyway I whipped out me sheath knife and I got one and that was a signal, he went out without a button on his uniform. Everybody grabbed him, and they all took their buttons and got their souvenirs.

But we got back to Mersa again and then they sent us out attached to the 7th Armoured Div that finished up, they called them the Desert Rats, not the Rats of Tobruk, the Desert Rats, they finished up in France and Berlin. And we were there as reconnaissance for them. See, that’s the big tanks they were and we were the light ones and we just sort of go around and if you spot something you ring them up, you know you’re like spies

I suppose the best way of saying it. And…

Because ours was worn out and we’d been up the desert, and we knew about it and they probably still had to do some training, I don’t know. But they took all of their, well, I don’t know if they had light tanks but they certainly had Bren carriers, cause I finished up in one.

And when they sent us up again, actually why they picked on them like that instead of sending them up, I don’t really know. But I do know that we got all their equipment at Helwan and sent back, we went by train and the other, oh they might have put the carriers on trains too, but they weren’t near us, and took us out to Mersa Matruh, where we went off into the desert.

And I was out there in one spot, one day and in the distance you could see dust coming or flying, it was flying you knew it was a vehicle. And as it’s getting closer and closer and closer, it had to be one of ours because no one would come out like that into where’s there’s troops ready for them. And as they’re getting closer, it turned out to be one of our utilities, he would have

passed away no further than, bit more perhaps than the width of my bloke here, and a bloke waves out, “How ya going, Albie?” Way out in there, it was a kid I went to school with, Ron Cooper by name. So yeah, he’s recognised me standing out there, you know, “G’day Lionel, how ya going?” Ya know. And that happen a few times to me over there, I was recognised way out miles from anywhere. But

we didn’t see, where I was, we didn’t see any fighting of any descriptions with the Germans out there. We went onto various other places where our blokes were and on one occasion the British tanks had hit one of the German big fellows and stopped him. And one of the British Bren carriers went out to get the crew and bring them in and they let them get near enough, and then the Germans inside

swung their big gun around and bang, hit the carrier and killed everyone in it, so then the big tanks just stood and belted hell out of it. See, their fighting days were over, they should have just surrendered, just come in, that’s all they went out there, they didn’t go out there to kill them and bring them in. But no, they just hit the British carrier and that was it. But it was that hot out there that we were carrying a lot of extra petrol in tins,

and the tins were actually going like that with the heat, bubbling and I used to just stab a tiny hole in it and just let the vapour out. But when a dust storms blowing out there, we used to put a blanket over, but you couldn’t touch the side of your carrier, hey were that hot, terribly hot. And we put up with that for oh….not that long, hard to say, a couple of weeks perhaps.

Out there going around, shot a few gazelle, they only live on salt water, but they are good eating. And then they bought us back in then because we were going to go into Syria and Lebanon against the French. So we were taken away, we were seconded to the British for rations and everything and I think, I think being attached to them, we were the only Australian actual regiment that

got a rum ration. And I tell you what, in winter time you need it. Two o’clock in the afternoon in winter time and icicles on our water cart that came around were about that long. And that’s cold. But I’ve got one or two photos of those there to. But then they took us back to Mersa Matruh and give us 3 or 4 days at the seaside in the Medi [Mediterranean], swimming and mucking around in general.

And then I heard the 2/14th were there, they were dug in around Mersa ready for Rommel coming, or if he got that far, which he got past there. And later on I transferred, my transfer was going through even at that particular time, to get with me mate that you know we’d signed each others papers, Phil Burns.

2/14th Battalion, 7th Division.

But you never know whether you’re doing the right thing or the wrong thing. They finished up making me 60th Cavalry Regiment into a commando unit up in the islands, and a lot of me mates, I’ve got the names there, were killed. I could have been amongst them, you don’t know. I was exceedingly fortunate in New Guinea, when we were cut off see.

I put in for it….when the 2/14th were at Mersa Matruh. I went to visit me mates, oh me mate and his mates, I got to know quite a few of them there and just to get with him I transferred. I’d got me mates well and truly in the cavalry at that time, but just to get with that particular,

we were fairly close together, we signed each others papers and everything else. We were in the militia together, and he was a Springvale boy that I’d grow up with.

Yeah he came from Oakleigh, he went to England in the forestry, but he came back and went to Tobruk, and that’s where he was killed by a dive bomber got him. And I only found that out by accident, a fellow who was very close

to him in Tobruk had transferred to the cavalry, which you’ll hear about soon, and he knew him and I was talking about it and he said, “He’s dead.” He said, “He was killed with a dive bomber.” Yeah and that’s how I found out about him, but it was true, he had the right man.

Well we went from there back to Mersa Matruh and out there, virtually with the 7th Armoured Div against the Africa Corps, but I never saw the Africa Corps, we were just, just where we were they never turned up they went to the other way along the coast. But we went back then, they pulled us out from them

because they, the powers that be decided to attack Lebanon and Syria, because they were frightened that the Germans, see the Vichy French were in cahoots with the Germans, and they were thinking that the Germans were going to come down with French permission well and truly, cause they were in charge, Germans were in charge anyhow then. They were going to come down into Syria and Lebanon and have a go at us from

there. So they decided the best set up was to take Syria and Lebanon, kick the French out and then the Germans would have to fight us up towards Turkey if they came through Turkey. We thought they were going to. But anyway I travelled on the ammunition wagon, back to Palestine then we went through Palestine, I can’t name the camps

on this particular trip, till we got up near the Syrian border. And we got a puncture, oh coming through Palestine it was stinking hot and the road there is only like wire netting with bitumen over it, that’s on the sand, and there’s a gang on it most of the time working just keeping the sand off the road, because the sand moves

all the time nearly, every time there’s a breeze anyway, and it cuts the road off. So they’ve got a gang of labourers doing nothing else but keeping that road free. But we got up then, I was on the top of the wagon, ammo wagon, sitting up where it was cool. I wasn’t on me own, there was two or three of us there, and we were crossing a bridge and there again, “G’day, Albie,” it was the bloke in the military police that lives in Springvale

and he spotted me up there. Anyway we went on and we got to the top of this hill and we got a puncture and we couldn’t have had a spare or something I don’t know, but we were waiting for the LAD, the Light Aid Detachment, they do minor repairs and that sort of things. And we were right outside a massive big orange grove and we were in there eating them and having a ball

and way back in the valley goes for miles, you could just see a convoy coming along, and I suggested to the fellows it’s going to be troops, you know a con when you see one and it was getting closer, but it was still miles away. What if we got and get a stack of oranges and we park them down the road and we’ll toss them into the trucks as they come. They all went along with it and we had hundreds and hundreds of oranges there, lo and behold,

as the trucks started passing us and we’re throwing them in, “G’day, Albie,” it’s the 2/14th Battalion that I was waiting to get into. And not only me mate but there was a Bill Lucas, he was a milkman in Oakleigh, he got MM [Military Medal] for blasting a French pillbox. But anyway, they all recognised me, the ones that I know, you know there was quite a lot of them. And we give these oranges to them, just

belting them in as hard as we could, I got some thanks later on when they knew me. But anyway, they fixed up our truck and we went on and we pitched not far from the border and we were there for a few days and we got the order to have a shave. We had not tin hats, put your hat on at the right angle you’re going in, we’re not expecting much resistance here, and there were not going to get in, they haven’t got many tanks,

they haven’t got this, there was nothing further from the truth. We soon changed our felt hat for steel hats. That was the information that the intelligence had come up with. On the 3rd day, we were supposed to be up in Aleppo, oh 100 mile or up you know at an aerodrome at a place called Aleppo, near the Turkish border. Three weeks later, we were still within about 15 mile of where we started,

and I’d lost my officer, his driver and a couple of others wounded in that time. The first time when we were told to go over there was several armoured cars, three I think, armoured cars, we had one of our light tanks and three carriers, Bren carriers when I say carriers, and we were going to go over round

and the 2/2nd Pioneers were attacking the fort at Khayyam, now they were getting a lot of casualties, and they were going to send us around to attack the actual fort from the back to call some of the pressure of them. But we started to go around and the French had blown the roads. The roads are about an angle like that, and they’ve blown it and it’s all gone down the bottom, we can’t get through, that’s the end of the armoured cars coming with us.

So we went back and re–grouped and they reckoned we could get through a bit of the saddle, between two hills, and we did we got round, and we no sooner started off on the main road again, past where they’d blown it, and there’s a road block. You visualise a road block that’s all built up of heavy stones and everything there, then there’s another one here and then another one there, and you’ve got to sort of – and you’re a sitting duck really, if they’ve got their artillery set on that.

cause you nearly stopped, anyway they let us through, we had no firing, and we got maybe a mile or more past and all hell broke loose from this place called Merjaoun where my officer and his driver were killed. Over there at this place called Merjaoun and they over open sights from this hill are just firing down on us. Well we took off

as fast as we could to try and get amongst some olive tress that were down further one. And the bloke in charge of my carrier this time, a sergeant, McDonald, they’re all lovely fellows, I can’t keep saying that, they were all terrific, he saw the one in front the bedding was coming off, I’d have left it there. But he said to our Driver Col Trotter

from Cobden, you know Cobden down there? Actually Timboon, right in Timboon, and he’s gone now, but he come home, anyway he slowed Col down, he jumps out the carrier, he’s picking up their bedding and he’s throwing it into our carrier, and I thought, “To the devil with that! I’m not getting out there!” For a while I pulled me, you’ve seen a Bren carrier? Well, you know how the tank cut off

I pulled me head down, cause there was nothing to shoot at they were too far away. Pulled me head down, but it’s worse if you can’t see what’s going on, so like it or not up comes me head, you might have it cut off but I just had to come up I couldn’t stop down there. Anyhow we got into this olive grove, and it was only a few acres, 3 or 4 acres, maybe 5, it’s hard to say. And there’s thick trees and they knew we were there, that’s a light tank,

the tank got a bit damaged actually with the shell but it didn’t stop it, and the three carriers. And we were in there, and they knew we were in that position and they’re just belting shots into us. And while you’re looking a top comes off a tree and then a top comes, as the shells are hitting them, it was taking the whole top off just leaving the stump sticking up. I thought, “They’re going to hit us soon.” Anyway, night was coming on and they stopped firing. And three

sides around that block was all these stone walls like you see in the western districts, you know about this wide and about that high, and we couldn’t get out of them but the other way there was a slope but it was a bit steep, and our tracks wouldn’t take it so we had to get out with shovels and levelled it all off. Anyway we were going up but we broke our track on carrier I was in, so we had to leave that. So I just took me, I had a rifle too, cause

you don’t carry them, and we had a lot of food stuff on board that the Infantry can’t carry. We had to leave that and the rifle and things, but I just got me Bren gun, and as many magazines as I could carry and that was it. Got back next morning and some of the locals had taken everything, the rifles, all the tucker and everything, the carrier was still there. But they give us another carrier, anyway, we were on our way and the artillery,

our artillery has opened up on a spot and they sent our carrier that I was in, there was about four carriers this time too, the little tanks wasn’t with us but the carriers – they took one road and they sent us down this one to see what the firing was all about. And we’re getting down and there’s two Frenchman walking down the hill on the side, and we pulled up and they shot back over the top again

and the artillery………………..

This is when we got into Syria, the first few days, the first two days I would say at the moment yeah. Anyway with these two Frenchmen the second time they came down, we were waiting there, they got behind some small bushes,

we couldn’t actually see them but the bushes were there, they’d be about half a mile away I suppose, every bit of half a mile. And anyway, I thought I can shift them out of there, no bother at all, but we were all mates, but the sergeant said to me, “Don’t shoot them Albie.” He said, “Don’t shoot them that’d be murder.” And that’s right, but I might have just given them a burst but anyway

he’d dead right. So I fired one shot that I knew would be pretty close to them, sure enough up they jumped started walking down. And they came right down to us, we had to wait a little while, and we disarmed, they bought their arms with them, or their rifles with them, we disarmed them and just pointed and told them which was to go. And then we had to re-join our others, they went on the other – three

or four I’m not sure carriers, we were the only ones there, we had to cut across a whopping big paddock to join them rather than go all the way around the road. And as we were crossing the paddock I’m looking and see these boxes about this size, a whole row of them, land mines. Well that’s the first thing that hit me, I wasn’t absolutely certain but I couldn’t think of

anything else, the French hadn’t had time to bury them. Anyway they’re there, and were heading for the, well I’ve got tins of petrol in and we had a fuel problem, every so often I had to keep putting a wet rag on the fuel pump, and to keep us going otherwise the carrier would stop. And I was handling that all right, but I’ve got me Bren gun there, I’ve got all

these tins of petrol, extra petrol in case we needed it and I’m stabbing holes in them as they start to virtually boil, that’s what they looked like. Anyway, I couldn’t get to the driver and I’m screaming me head off, cause they’re noisy things, screaming me head off, “There’s landmines ahead, there’s landmines ahead.” Nobody heard me. Anyway the sergeant in charge there, he’s trying to

divert the driver, you know you give signals and the rest of it, and the driver wasn’t taking a bit of notice, Col from Timboon, anyway finally he got through to him and he stopped him dead, dead on one and it never went off. Well, we jumped out as quick as we could, I just grabbed me gun and out and they followed me. And the other

carriers had seen us stop and they, we tried to signal them with our hands but they sent 2 over and they joined tow ropes and they towed us off it and it never went off. And oh there must have been over half a mile of these land mines and they weren’t anti-personnel, they were anti-tank, we would have blown us to smithereens in a little carrier. Anyway we joined them all right and that was over and done with and then I

can’t remember actually what we did then for the rest of that day, but we finished up back in the camp and being a cavalry unit you can imagine, or I hope you can, we had a lot of light horsemen from the militia had joined up into the mechanised cavalry, but we had no horses. But the French did have horses

and the British had horses, we had the Cheshire Yeomanry they call them, they were horse soldiers, and when you’re in horses they go so far on the horses then dismount and then somebody takes the horses back and you’re handling your machine guns. But in this case, the French had just evacuated this village, gone further back, and they were sending

in a whole troop, I don’t know how many but it was quite a lot, of what they call ‘spahis’, they’re African horsemen, they’d be Arabs, but under the French protection and that. And the Senegalese, they had quite a lot fighting for them you see, from Africa, and these spahis hadn’t come into the village quite quick enough

and the Cheshire Yeomanry got in hid their horses and they were waiting with guns and everything ready. And in comes the spahis, well they just about cut them to pieces, and they got a lot of horses. And we were running short, we’d suffered quite an attack on our carriers. So they formed and you never hear of this, what we called the Kelly Gang, and the

British themselves had give us some of their horses and the ones they captured from the spahis. Now, this didn’t include me because I’m not a horseman. I can ride but when I’ve said that I’ve said everything, and we had them. And they went into action on horses, the only one in the Second World War that fought on horses, Australians. And we were back there then for a while waiting for another

carrier, they took ours off us and give it to somebody else, case we were short on them. Anyway that’s all right, that’s the Kelly Gang, so we did have horse soldiers in this World War, but you don’t hear of these things. Anyhow we….

No.

Just for a very very short time, very short time, yeah. Then we were told to

go over to the coast and we cut across, some of the bridges were down, blown, and we had to sort of go through low creeks and that, we got across over near Tyre and Sidon and all them places up the coast. And the war was virtually over, the French gave in but they, it was more like a negotiated business. They were able to keep all their arms and

have a big base around Tripoli where I went and was stationed up their with my crew, my regiment and they were waiting for boats to take them home. But they were there for, oh, several weeks. Now they had captured some of our people, one in particular that I knew, and he was over in France with the others, they’d sent them out of the country. And

they weren’t going to return them, some of this I’ve only heard but it backs up everything else that I sort of know. Now when we were around Tripoli, we’ve gone through Beirut up, Tripoli’s fairly well north, not that far from the Turkish border and it’s a big port. And we were there and we used to go out on pickets and patrols, when I say pickets, you know what it is don’t ya?

Picket, and patrols and all we had was our side arms, I was issued with a revolver because I was a machine gunner. And we only had side arms, some had bayonets, different things like that. But the French were walking around with their patrol fully armed, and that put us into a disadvantage if anything had had happened. And you go into a cafe

we were Australia, we acted like Australians, how ya going this sort of business, and we try to, even though we’d beaten them, they’d be in these ‘estaminades’ that they call them and we walk in and no, no, no. If they out numbered us, you get the old Raymond down death to the gladiators sort of business, and they did that often, or they’d walk out, wouldn’t have anything to do with us, yet we were quite happy to say

g’day to them, you know. We did have French fighting with us but I don’t really know if I ever struck a free French Soldier, but I struck the Vichy and I’ve never really liked the French ever since, yet there’s good and bad everywhere. But anyway….

Yeah, and when

they wouldn’t bring our prisoners back, it sort of got a little bit heated for a while and our powers that be went and grabbed all the top Generals in the French Army over there. One I think was General Dentz, I think he was the main one of the French, and they grabbed them and wouldn’t let them go until they bought all our prisoners back from Europe. Anyway, they bought them back, but they as they

were going along in trains and things like that, like I said we were on patrol and we had road blocks and all sorts of things set so they couldn’t go far, but our blokes were using them just empty drums. And on one occasion, one of the French trucks deliberately hit it, he didn’t not straight on but it swung and gave one of our blokes a terrible gash in the leg. And I happened to be

the one that got the local people working about to gather a lot of rocks and we filled the drums up with rocks and we never had any more bother. Whether I don’t know whether, well I did but I thought well I’ve give them something to hit if they do. But as they’d be going along in the train, troop train all full of French, particularly when they knew we were out numbered, they’d go this all the time, give you the thumbs down.

But they eventually did get rid of them all and take them away and we moved further north, the cav [cavalry], mapping roads way up near the Turkish border. See Turkey was like that, in the First World War she came in on Germany’s side and they didn’t know which way she was going to go this time. But anyway she didn’t and the day they attacked Russia, I’ll tell you what we breathed a sigh of relief.

We were way up in the hills, no I’m getting onto the 14th here – we road mapped way up, all over the front, then we moved back to our base at Aleppo.

Mine personally?

Just going along with them, nothing else, just going along with them more or less as a

guard as much as anything. But I had nothing to do other than travel with them. And there was few vehicles of us, few vehicles going along and we got on quite well with the locals, more or less every where we went. And there was only place where I told you we had to wear our hats on the correct angle, have a shave, treat everybody nice. At that time, they did say if you’ve got to have something

buy it, if they won’t sell it take it but give them a fair price for it. Everything, this was our army talking, what we were expected to do, but with one exception and I’m afraid I was the culprit in this, when we pulled into a village, I’m going back a little bit here during the fighting. We went into a village, it was deserted, everybody

gone but we found a dozen WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s. Well I’m not bad on plucking WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s, we knocked a dozen off and it was a change from army rations. I admit it was the wrong thing to do, I suppose, but we did enjoy the WAS DOUBLE QUOTE CHOOK s.

No, no, only the ones around us knew, we didn’t share our good fortune too far. But you know it was a

break, you’ve got to do something, you go crazy sometimes. But anyway, we’d moved back, the road mapping, moved back to Aleppo and my transfer came through, to the 2/14th. Well nobody really knew where they were, in my circle. Anyway there was a bus going down into Palestine and they said, “Grab your gear and get on board,” and they said, “You’ll go via Tripoli,” which they did. And I got off in Tripoli

and I did a bit of fishing around and I found somebody, anyway they’d arranged transport for me and took me out to a place called Zgharta, that’s a few mile out of Tripoli. But I was there for just a few days, now there was one thing I did forget on the other, I should have had a look at that. I, oh I’ve missed a bit…

Can we go

back?

Well to go back to…..where were we now…..at Tripoli, all the cooks took crook and they said to one of my mates, German boy extraction, Alf Kamfhenkel and they said would he take on the

cooking. He said, “I will if Bolto will come and help me.” Well they come and saw me, he’s the bloke that won all the hundred of dollars, pounds playing two-up on the boat. I went in with him and we were there for 2 two or three weeks cooking, mainly tined stuff, we were just making stews and everything else they wanted. And we’d get a lot of Turkish eggs, small ones, they might have scrambled eggs, well

there’s dozen and dozens of eggs goes in to feed one squadron even. Anyhow I helping him there and were cracking them as quick as we could and whoo, you get a rotten one. When you finish, you don’t pull them out cause you can’t your going too fast, whack in the curry and nobody ever knew. And they got lots of rotten eggs, believe me, believe me not. But even apart from that

when we were down, back in Palestine at one stage there they were doing a terrible, a place called Julis, a camp called Julis, we had our first reunion there, I’ve got the ticket in there still of the 1st reunion ever held by the Cav. And they were going on all these marches over the hills and goodness know what and I went to see this Scots

bloke that we knew well, he won the 45, Bruce Macbeth and I said, “Can you get me into the cookhouse?” He said, “Yeah I’ll get you in,” and he did get me in too and after a few weeks I got specialists’ pay as a cook. That was, see we were on 5 shillings a day plus 6 pence exchange, so 5 and 6, but a Grade 2 Cook gets an extra 2

bob, well that made my wages quite a bit more than the others. And I thought that was a bit of all right too but he said to me, “Look, can you cook rice?” I’d seen Mum cook rice, you know, and, “Oh yes,” this was for 300 blokes. Anyway he said, “All right,” and he give me a big bag of rice and you cook in coppers, you know like Mum used to have for the washing and that sort of thing and a pick handle to stir it, clean one of course. Anyway

I put the water in the copper, put some rice in it, yeah that looks all right, started to boil up, stirring away, she’s getting thicker and thicker, dear. Anyway I put some more water in another cooper, whacked some in it, split it up and both of them are still getting thicker, and I finished up with 3 copperfuls. Well I won’t tell you where they told me to put the rice in the end

they were quite rude, but he nearly screamed. Well he said, “They’re going to eat it.” He said, “I can’t waste all that they’re going to get it until its gone,” and of course they were like. “No, I don’t want any. You can do this with it and you can do that with it,” and all the rest of it. But I did well in the cookhouse cause I was mates, apart from that with the butcher. And the officers had been getting oh the pick of the meat, oh the undercuts and all sorts of things, and

when I got in there, he came in and had his breakfast and meals with us, when I was in there, and he bought all the good meat in, the officers finished up getting just what was left. So did the troops too but what we got was spot on and there used to be Jews come around and get the leftovers for their pigs and whatever, and instead of paying for it, they used to give us wine, a decanter, and

all sorts of thing, we did well. And chocolate used to come in, drinking chocolate, like in blocks, but you could melt it down and drink it. And every time we’d go to the picture theatre I’d grab a great stack of this chocolate and me mates are sitting alongside me. But one night while we were in the pictures, there was only one seat left anywhere near us and pictures started and somebody came and sat there. Then the interval come on and the lights come on

“G’day Peter,” a bloke I worked with at Healey’s came right and sat right alongside me. It’s strange, isn’t it, how things work? That did, like I said before, that did happen to me lots of times, amazing. It’s a small world you can’t afford to have secrets. Anyway when I transferred I was still getting the specialists’ pay and I never said a word about it, I just shut me mouth, I thought I’d let it go for a while. Got to tell them in the end,

obviously, you might have to pay a lot of back pay, but anyway I never said anything and I was on specialists’ pay for 5 months. I thought I’d better go tell them so I went and told the powers that be, the 2/14th and I thought they might just take it, but I thought I hadn’t been ridiculous about it. They wanted me to be a cook there then. They were short of cooks. But oh no, I said, “I’m not a cook really.” I said, “I’m not going to have that job on.” I said, “No way.”

But on me discharge. Grade 2 Cook, and that’s the only thing I don’t like about me discharge, if people look at the back of it, “Oh, he was only a cook.” And I sort of reckon that’s an insult cause I didn’t join up to be a cook. But when it got to, this is at Goita, I was there for a few days….

Not commanding officer, lieutenant, he was in charge of our troops.

His driver yeah.

That was our first casualties there, those two and then….

No that was away, not that far a few mile. That’s where the French artillery were that were firing at us over open sights when we made a run for the olive grove.

That was over there, he’d gone around that way and I’d gone along straight through towards Khayyam as we were coming around the back of the fort to try and take some of the pressure off the 2/2nd Pioneers.

You mean….

Oh no way over in the desert I put

thousands of round through when we were fighting the Italians, I put a lot over a period. I put quite a lot in the day we, the infantry came in and helped up. But up till then actually you see dead people, you know these things, but when that battle was over I went looking around the area where we were attacking and there was quite a lot of dead Italians about. I don’t want to say a lot, but there was quite a number there.

And it just, it was a dust storm like I said it was blowing, and it was settling on them and they looked like waxed figures that you see in Myers, that sort of thing, and it made me feel real dirty, real dirty, as if I could sort of scrub me self. I felt strange when I’d seen like so many in the one set up. But no, anyway we got the….

To Goita,

and the company that I was going to, where that Phil Burns I told you about we joined up together, where he was up in the hills, they were digging in up there. And it was Christmas, November then, actually that was November 41, but Christmas coming on fast, and I had to go up there. Well they took me by truck so far and then you had to

walk about 2 mile up this stinking hill with all me gear. And I tell ya I was glad to get up, you know I’d had enough. But anyway they were all up there and I joined the 16th Platoon, I forget the section’s name but that doesn’t matter, of Don Company. Don Company’s essentially and normally a machine gun company, but they were starting to dig out in the hills, pill boxes, because we didn’t know whether the

Germans were going to come through Turkey, didn’t know if the Turks were going to come down even then. And we used to go down each day and get rid a bit of a snow if it was in the way, shovel it in and then we built ourselves a pill box there for my gun. Overlooking this, well more like a valley, we were up pretty high. And the wolves started to come down, it

was a really cold winter that year, anyway we shot a couple. The first thing we knew about them we used to have a bit of a fireplace near the tent and we’d leave some of our tucker out, a bit of bread and we got up this morning and there’s teeth mark in it all, that was the first signs that we had that the dogs were coming down. But we trapped one jackal, put a bone up a tree with wire underneath it done up like a lasso, you know and jumping up and up and he come down and strangled himself,

but the couple of wolves that we shot. Anyway the Salvo [Salvation Army] fellow used to come up once a week, he was attached to our Battalion, lovely fellow Albert Moore, Captain Albert Moore. And he said, “As long as you’ve got a big fire going for me and all that,” and we used to. He’d bring up cocoa and different drinks and that with his meal. And records, Vera Lynn in particular, she was everybody’s favourite,

and we’d sit there for an hour or two, have a real nice night listen to Albert and his music, then he’d go home the next day. He got lost one night, one day in the snow but they found him all right and bought him safely home. But that Christmas came, oh just prior to Christmas we were down at the diggings, 7th of December,

I think just before Christmas, may have been just after, but anyway we were there and another fellow George Hancock, he come up from near Chiltern, and I were outside, the others saw this bloke coming up and they all got into the pill box, we didn’t know why. But anyway he’s coming up and got up to us and, “G’day, how ya going?” and all this sort of thing, turned out he was the brigadier on his own, just sort of walking up. And he said,

“Have you heard the news lately?” “No.” And he said, “The Japs are into the war.” He said “They’ve sunk half the American fleet at Pearl Harbour, and they sunk the Prince of Wales and the Royal Sovereign.” I think the Royal Sovereign, and that, those two ships to me personally but I think there were the others too, meant more than the whole of the Yankee navy. That sort of we take them or leave them you know we didn’t know whether they were much good anyhow.

But to think that our two big capital ships had gone down, bombed and just sunk ‘em like that, that really hit me. And we were talking to him for a while and the others when they heard this they all come out then. Anyway, he eventually went off his way, just wondering around seeing how things were going. And Christmas, yeah, Christmas day we decided we’d walk over to the Arab village that was near us,

they used to do our washing, these two blokes, one was named Ahmed and the other one Ali. And we used to pay them, and then they’d get our washing and everything done for us, you could go down the river yourself but it was a long way down and everything else, and I never did like doing me own washing. And I went over with quite a few, there was a few of us, over to the village and we took lollies with us and small coins and the snows everywhere, and they come out to meet us, not

the women, you don’t see the women very much. And we’re throwing them up in the air and the kids are diving after them and everything else, cause if you like the kids the people like you. And we had a good relationship with them, I never knew anyone that ever had bothers with them. But we were invited into this whopping big room, a fire in the middle of it, no chimney, fire in the middle of it and they decided they’re going to cook us, or make us a drink,

tea. That’s sweet, I like sweet stuff fortunately and I didn’t mind it, it was really sickly, but I didn’t mind it and I had another one and that. And then they dished up some rice pudding and that was about as sweet as the sugar, but I got through all that too and I was the favourite. But you’ve got to burp, you heard this have ya? Yeah, and the louder you burp the more they think you’ve enjoyed their tucker, and I could burp.

Anyway we went back to the camp and we weren’t there much longer than that then and they decided the 9th, some of the 9th Divi who fought at Alamein come over and sort of took over more or less from us. But not while we were actually in position but they took us back to Zagorta and took us down to this Camp Julis again. And the 2/2nd Pioneers were there

this time and I had quite a few blokes that I was in the militia with there. And I went and saw them and that and then we were on the first boat, French boat, Isle De France, and we got on board that for Suez, where we first started and they took us down, more or less uneventful until we got to Bombay.

We knew, we didn’t know where we were actually going to

go at that particular time, but we knew it was towards home, we knew we were going home and we envisaged fighting Japanese. But that’s about all we could know at that particular time. And I said hooray to these blokes in the 2/2nd Pioneers and strange enough, they passed us while we were getting into small boats to go to Singapore at Bombay. And they took us back to the same army camp, a place called Kallaba [?], just out of

Bombay and we got in a small boat, City of Paris, we travelled in, and we had nurses on board, fortunately. And we went off Singapore, three days out, Singapore fell. From nowhere, maps of Java come and you’ll be getting off the boats fighting. Well that sort of you know it give you confidence as you can imagine.

Anyway they give all the troops 50 rounds each, except the likes of me, and I had 7 magazines of 30 for me gun. And each of my section, there was seven of them, they carried 4 magazines of 30 each for me. But it doesn’t last long believe me. Anyway we sailing away to Java and

we’d been going a couple of days or more even from where we were and we had an 8 inch British cruiser, the Cornwell, 6 inch Dorchester and another one I can’t remember the name of it, another 6 inch. The Cornwell carried a sea plane and it went up everyday. This particular day they must have radioed back, we turned round and were heading for

Colombo as quick as we could, then the plane come it and was picked up and kept going. They spotted the Japanese fleet. The battle that sunk the Perth and the Yankee Houston and different ones and it was coming towards us. Anyway that was the end of Java, finished. The 2/2nd had bypassed, pioneers had passed us, landed and all taken prisoners as they got off the boat, and that

would have happened to us. I tell ya I was blessed in many ways, many ways. And we were in Colombo then, and as you go in big sign, Ceylon for tea. I’ve often asked these Ceylonese or whatever they call themselves these days if that’s still there, some of them have never seen it, they don’t think it’s there now. Anyway cause it’s not Ceylon any more for a start is it, it’s Sri Lanka. Anyway

we finished up with up with a whopping big battle ship, three or four destroyers, I just forget exactly how many and the three British cruisers that had been with us, and a Catalina around about most of the time, and there was only one place to go then and that was home. So we finished up, one day there they were letting off a lot of depth charges and

they nearly knocked the bottom out of me boat, and they must have been a mile or more away, its amazing the repercussion that come through that water. But anyway we….

Our cruisers and destroyers, destroyers I’d say mainly.

They reckon they got one but we don’t really know, I don’t really know. But the rumour was around that they did get one.

Anyway then they bought us all the way home, uneventful. During the day the big battle ship floated alongside us, he was about a quarter of a mile away but they looked close on the water and it would be about quarter of a mile. And then at night time it would go out in the lead and then come back during the day and we were in the middle of the convoy. Having nurses on board I suppose helped but it was good. And our artillery that we would have landed, we did have artillery fellows on board,

there guns were days behind on another boat. They wouldn’t have been any help. So we pulled into Fremantle and we were the 2/16th Battalion are West Aussies, they’ve got odd ones in it who are from Vic and that, but originally they are. And they were given 6 days leave to go home. Well we made, it’s the only time I’ve ever really been in Perth and Fremantle,

and the ‘Blue Jackets’ from the British cruisers were all over the place with our fellows walking around. And I’m not absolutely certain how many Yankee, the old time ones, four stack destroyers were in harbour and how many submarines, but believe me there were a lot, something like about either twenty something

submarines, or ten submarines and the other in destroyers. And she was on for young and old, and Aussie would pick a Yank and the Blue Jacket would hit him, or a Blue Jacket would pick a Yank and an Aussie would hit him, and there was fighting all over. Fremantle to Perth must have been sick of the sight of the soldiers. Anyway we got on, we were only there for 2 days but they give us leave to look around, and then we went. Oh we just got off the boat and 2 old ladies come up to me and me mate she said,

“Excuse,” she said, “are you on those ships out there?” She said, “Was you in the Middle East?” We said, “Yeah.” “Did you see my nephew?” Yeah the first words, the funny things that you do have, and I had that sort of things put to me twice, “No, we didn’t see him,” and she was quite happy, off she goes. Anyway we pulled into Adelaide, oh before we got to Adelaide the Australian Navy took us over and the three

British cruisers went round and round playing Waltzing Matilda and this sort of stuff all the time, beautiful you know. And three weeks to the day later they were sunk by the Japanese, and it was almost as if we’d lost one of our companies in the battalion. We were so, over two months we were with them see coming across, over two months, and we sort of regarded them the same as ourselves. But we got to

Adelaide and they took us out to a place called Springbank, I suppose you’ve heard of the name Springbank in this sort of thing have ya? Yeah, anyway the farmers and that, it would have been about March time, and the farmers sending cases of beautiful grapes and everything else, and you’d walk down the street and somebody male or female would stop ya, “Excuse me, are you returned men?” “Yes.” “My husband would love to meet you. Would you come

around for supper?” And all this sort of thing, it was beautiful you know, we really felt at home. Yeah and I told my wife all about this, years later I said, “Well go back to Adelaide,” the war was over. But I sort of expected them to be just the same but they were just normal Australians by that time, the war was well and truly over. But we were in Springbank for a little while, walking all over the hills again,

and this Alec Elmore, one of the four originals that were with me, he came, he was waiting for us when Phil and I came back off a march and wanted us to come out for the night. And we made our beds up as if there was somebody asleep in them and we took off, and we were having

a nice round of feed and all the rest of it and then we just got out of that place and the provos came and raided the joint, and we might have been picked up for goodness knows what if we’d have stopped in it. Something had happened, but anyway they told us, I’m sorted reminded I told you this before….

Yeah.

Yeah I must have butted in, have you got that on the record?

Well anyway, I’ll just sort of just

breeze over that. But we had a lovely night there singing to them and get invited out like I said to that young girl’s place and that. And then it was time for us, oh we got back that night, in the morning we were called out me mate and I somebody dobbed us in. And they said righto, out the others go marching and all we had to do was go round the camp picking up cigarette butts and

paper and things, we had a day off. And weren’t they screaming when they came in, cause they were sort of laughing think we’d been caught, well we had been but we did far better than them. But anyway they sent us home and just before we went the brigadier, I think it was Potts, fellow called Potts, met him later on he was a really nice bloke, and he’s patting us on the back

how the Western Australians how all the AWLs they had when they were over there, all the South Australians when they were done but the Victorians hadn’t, but he hadn’t seen the Victorians when they got home. Anyway we got home by train and the family met me, the station was absolutely full, put me in the car and took me home, six days leave. But it goes quick you don’t, you know it’s gone. Anyway I reported back

and went, sent up to, nothing eventful happened on the way up, but we went up to Yandina in Queensland, just out of Nambour a bit, some of our blokes married the Yandina girls. And they put us into a bit of jungle training there and a lot of the fellows got caught with a stinging nettle, I just can’t

remember the name, but they were out in their shorts and that and they come out terrible…….

Personally no, mainly they were interested in the officers not just the rank and file. But later on I got

to know one a bit better and I asked her why, this is up in New Guinea this little girl, I’m getting ahead, I asked her why, I said, “Why do you always go out with the officers?” “Oh,” she said, “they can get cars.” I said, “I can beat that.” She said, “What’s that?” I said, “I can get a Bren carrier.” I said, “Would you like a ride?” “Yes I would,” she said. “You get a Bren carrier,” she said, “I’ll go out with ya for sure.” But I was boarded B and I never sort of got the chance, yes.

But no normally rank and file, because the officers have those extra little privileges they can get transport and different things that weren’t available to the ordinary person. But I would have beat them with the Bren, I tell you she’d have had the ride of her life going through the scrub on that where the officers couldn’t take her.

Yes.

Next to nothing, the fact that they were Yanks. I do think a lot of it was they, to us they were over privileged. Up in New Guinea, you would see a truck load of porkers going along ready to be eaten you know, well we were on bully beef and biscuits. And those sort of things used to get under our skin a little bit.

But the cricketer, you may have heard his name, he played with Bradman and them, Ernie Bromley, ever heard his name?

He was a mate of mine and he got mixed up. He used to mix around with this bloke, this bloke was a trouble maker but he would go up and deliberately starting goading the Yanks and then sort

of step quietly down and Ernie would have to move in and get caught with the lot of it. But he was a fine fellow Ernie, he’s dead now. I only met him once after the war and he come to live in Springvale or Mulgrave, just up from Springvale and I’m digressing a bit here I suppose, but later on you may – we’re being taped aren’t we on this.

All right. We were going from Townsville up to the islands

on our second way up and Ernie was on board and I happen to be stationed at the top of the gang way, not to let our troops off. And out come a whole team of ship’s crew, I don’t know I’ll say captain down sort of business, they were all officers of some kind even if they were only midshipman I suppose, and there coming past and as one’s going past I got a great

elbow in the stomach. It’s Bob, he was a friend of the captain’s and they’d lent him navy clothes and he was getting a night off as well as them. But no he, he was a nice bloke. Laurie Nash, never met him personally, but I never struck anyone that liked him. Yet Bromley never had anyone ever said, you know, he was a nice bloke. But…

Oh got on well with them generally speaking. For a while in Palestine, I don’t know how long it lasted, but there was two lots that they wouldn’t sort of give pay to on leave at certain times, this type of thing. That was the black watch on the Aussies, they apparently were a couple of the trouble makers. But that was going, and we

had a bit to do too with the Palestinian police, they were all right, they used to take us in, we used to come into their rooms and do what we wanted with them, they were all Poms. No, we got on well, I mean you’ll always find problems, some kind, even amongst our own. I come horribly close me self and I don’t consider I’m a trouble maker but one of our blokes, I can name him, I suppose he’s dead now anyway.

He’s people run a, or did, Caley by name, Baz Caley, for some unknown reason he took a dislike to me, why I don’t know I never disliked him at any time. But he a little bit bigger than me, not much 2 or 3 inches and considerable heavier, but he was

always trying to needle me, why to this day I don’t know. But anyway he did it one time up at Wau, which we’ll come to later and I thought, in front of all the blokes, well this is it I’ve got to step on this whether I get a hiding or whether I don’t, and I probably would have, I thought I would have. But anyway said righto bounce yourself out and he backed off, well he copped it from the others

I’ll tell ya, he really copped it from the others. And after that, it was all right he spoke no trouble. He probably try and pushed me as far as he could and he found there was a point of stopping. But at a reunion one time, I haven’t been to many, I don’t go to them. I went and he was the first bloke rushed up, “Albie, how ya going?” Why couldn’t he have always been like that, you know.

But these sort of things do happen, but it did with Baz but we were all right after that, once I stopped him. But he backed off in front of the others and I tell you what they ribbed him over that, he didn’t shine good.

I did all right, I did all right, yeah. Mail came through pretty good. Once

in the desert I had a parcel delivered to me and I forget now exactly what the address was that was left on it, but it all arrived. And it had been busted open and everything was in it, nothing taken. But the name was, and address was horribly mucked up. It’s amazing how it ever reached me but it did, it did come. And you get

canteen orders you know that people send ya, no I had no squawks about that. When I got home and saw some of the letters and saw what was left of them after the censor had been through them it was unreal. Just a few lines, chop, chop, chop, you didn’t think you’d put anything in them worth while but some of them I think were a little bit vicious and they made sure nothing got out. But no, the mail was quite good for me.

I can only sort of speak for me, you know, but I had no squawks with that.

Oh pretty good, pretty good. As far as the main welcome was concerned and after that I was home with my folks and I didn’t sort of see much of anything else. I come home and actually

I had my 21st birthday out in the desert and I never really had a party, I didn’t want parties all me life I wasn’t interested, I didn’t go to many others either. Although I mixed all right, parties weren’t sort of my forte. Now Mum and aunty had organised one when I came home on me leave, and I said, “I’ve just come home to see you and me mates

and that.” I said, “I don’t want a party.” Mum said, “There all invited.” I said, “I don’t want it.” She said, “If you’re not going to have it then you can go round and put them off.” I did exactly that, I went round and excused meself and said, “I didn’t come home for this.” I said, “I just want to see me friends.” I said, “I’ll come and see you,” depending who they were and I said, “I don’t want a party.” I said, “I didn’t come home for that.” I said, “I just want to see the family and me mates.” That

was it. So I put it off, but Mum and Aunty weren’t terribly thrilled with that, but they accepted it of course, but I had to go and do the dirty work that I’d started.

I don’t really know, when we came home like that. I know I’ve got photos of the end of war celebration here, that I got from top of some of the

shops and things in Bourke Street. I climbed up on the verandas and got up and got a few of them, some of them didn’t come out, but I got a few of them, I can show ya after. Thousands and thousands in the street doing hokey pokey and all sorts of things. But I don’t really know when we came home from the Middle East cause as I said, I was just centred on my own family and friends. But in Adelaide it was out of this world.

Perth like I said I think they’d had enough of it before it went any further cause they really got it. You know so, many Yanks over there all the time and our fellows coming and going. But we didn’t really get on with the Yanks.

No, I helped to knock off some of their gear. But actually confronting, no I didn’t.

New Guinea.

Yeah.

Yeah, I went back on time, I took AWL a bit later.

I can’t really remember, I must have told them, I must have told them and you know happy birthday or something. But we were too sort of engrossed at that time, birthdays didn’t really mean much. No, nothing there.

Oh, over two years in the Middle

East.

Well I was mates, I think I told you I mentioned this to Leo before. Him and I used to get the Scot cook to do things for us, you know bake us cakes all sorts of stuff. He was a First World War man, he said, “You’re going to find when you get home that things aren’t the same.” He said,

“It will be changed, but,” he said, “it’s not them.” He said, “You’ve changed.” He said, “You’ve had your outlook broadened and everything else.” And he said, “You’ll get home, but,” he said, “you’ll think everybody else is different, but,” he said, “they’ve just come along in the same rut, and,” he said, “they haven’t altered at all. But,” he said, “you’ll find a big different between you and them.” I didn’t find such a great difference but there was, there was definitely a difference.

When I was, Christmas ’41 up in the islands, up in near the Turkish border, I found that one of my mates that we were in the militia with, there was three of us in together and I was the only one that joined the AIF. One of them was quite he never said, he got out on account of his father having an egg round and he’d pick up eggs and was like primary producing type of thing. The other one worked for John Danks,

he makes taps and all that sort of stuff. And in the militia days, he’d be like what he’d do if there was a war, the Germans, naturally the Germans they were our enemy last time, and he was going to do this to them do that to them. When I came to join up I said, “What about coming with us, Steve?” I said, “There’s four of us.” “Oh,” he said, “I might get in and you might not get in,” he said, “and I’m stuck there.” I said,

“Well I’ll go first,” which I did. But no he didn’t come in and then almost on Christmas Eve it was, I got a letter from him, all about different things, from your mate who stayed at home but who is standing by. I could have shot him at that time, and wouldn’t have had any qualms about it. But he came to Australia, he was

still at John Danks and you know when he said he was standing by if they came there and they came there but he didn’t – we finished up mates again.

One nearly did that I was lost in the jungle with, this Jewish chap, George Rosenthal.

Finer a chap you couldn’t get but I don’t think they should have allowed him to sort of get that far up into the jungle. Another one he won’t crop up later on, but came from around Warnervale, I’ve got a photo of him there, Albert to, Albert Nissan, from round Warnervale, yeah round Warnervale. And photo in there at the

shrine when we were in Adelaide, now he couldn’t shoot a man, but the Jap had no hesitation.

Yeah couldn’t shoot, but the Jap had no hesitation. Albie died. But yeah, you wouldn’t get a nicer, country fella but they were all as much the same, there was some criminals amongst them, I mixed with them all too.

But with him he’d just too nice a nature and he shouldn’t have been, he should have been in the hospital or something, Red Cross or something along that line.

No, there was nobody there in them days, see today you have counsellors and all sorts of things and that, there was nothing like that then. If you were in you were in and that was it.

And he thought he was doing the right thing and joined up, he didn’t know that he wouldn’t be able to do that. But personally see I, I had scruples, I reckon I did but I sort of done so much of this sort of business and even with rabbits and everything and it was sort of like second nature to sort of just go and whatever happened happened. But I was, I was fortunate in so many ways

really that, see I missed out on the main battles in Kokoda. I never, I’ve never actually fired a live round at a Jap, but it’s not my fault, I was cut off for a fortnight, just straight there from Manari, you know. But I was with other blokes, met them in the jungle that sort of thing, that they’d been into Kokoda and they’d fought their way out. But see finished up in a land mind all sorts of things,

terrible lot of things happened to me that I’m here today. But you don’t know, do ya.

Went to Yandina.

Yes.

They were just sort of landing then, or about to land. When we were at Yandina I don’t ……possibly around about June time, possibly June ’42. Yep round about that, from Yandina we went out on a night patrol one time and

I started to cough and Teddy Pierce the lieutenant, in charge of us there, he said, “Can’t have you coughing like that.” He said, “You’re giving our position away.” We were on our manoeuvres, of course. He said, “You’d better go back to camp.” I went back to camp, I went and see the doctor, Doctor Duffy, the next day and he give a couple of doses of misstussi [?] that everybody got if you got a cough or a cold,

and he said, “I think you ought to…” I had a deflective septum, got smacked with a cricket ball, I mentioned it and it was worse than it is now, anyway he said, “I think you ought to get something done about it.” He said, “It could help your breathing a terrible lot.” So he sent me into Brisbane and I first went to a convalescent depot at a place called Coorparoo, just out of Brisbane,

the trams used to run there in them days, and from there they sent me into see a Doctor Cross who was going to do the operation. He thought he could do a good job of it, he did, and they put me in hospital there and I came out and went back to the convalescent depot at Coorparoo and I met this Irishman,

actually there was two, one that had been in the militia with me, he was in the transport and this Irishman, Lionel Attwater from up at Eaglehawk. And were having a cup of coffee in the town and these two started talking about AWL and it finished up I went in on it to. But the one that was in the army with me Dick Grant, that market garden down at Springvale

South after the war, he went to the padre and he pinched the padre told a whole pack of lies about how his wife was expecting and she’d had trouble and all of this sort of thing and he got official leave to go and see his wife in Melbourne, that left Lionel and I out. Anyway we knocked off blank leave passes out of the orderly room, and filled them in signed them and

we went on leave for the weekend, come back at night time. But on the Monday morning we didn’t present ourselves for roll call, we were on the station at South Brisbane waiting for the train. And there’s provos all over the place and we didn’t have a lot of dough on us and we’d bought tickets as far as Ipswich. Well we got, this is quite a story really, well I think it is. We got off at Wangara, changed

trains there went on down to Sydney and picked up two homosexuals. I’d never met one in me life up until that time, anyway the stories they could tell was nobody’s business, how they were on with fellow called Best who was in with one of the big theatre chains in Melbourne there. If we want a few bob we just go and see him, its

a funny world isn’t it.

Yes just the last bit there yes. Anyway we got into, right into Sydney into……Hyde Park I think it is, and they had a big centre there for troops, Monash Centre. You could go there and get a meal and costs you nothing, voluntary work. And it was terrific and this

pair were with us there and then we went out to one of the outer stations, and we were going to get a train to bring us towards Melbourne. And we went to a restaurant and we said to the bloke what we were, he said, “Oh come back later and I’ll make you some sandwiches,” that’s all right. And

we only had to go to a theatre, ask for the manager, tell him we were down on our luck a bit, you know we’d like to see the picture and they’d escort you to good seats, just sit anywhere, unbelievable how many free rides I got on with that. This Irishman put me right, he was fantastic. Anyway we waited and got on board the train, with our sandwiches, and it was a good train and were coming

down, throughout the night, anyway in the morning when it was daylight they pulled up at a place there and we walked in on the guard, along them little platform little running board things. And he got the shock of his life as we were coming in, cause the train was going along, and he was very helpful, and we told him what we were doing. He said, “Well look,” he said, “we’re well ahead of time.” He said, “I’ll walk down and see the driver, see

if he start now pick up a bit more time and we get to such and such a place.” He said, “You can get on and get your breakfast there.” Well that was all right they started the train off and took us off down there, we got our breakfast and that, come back on and we got down to Cootamundra. Yeah we got off the train there, I don’t really remember why, but we got off the train at Cootamundra, four of us, and Lionel walked

up, the bloke I started with, he said, “Oh Mrs Ryan’s hotel’s over there, come on.” No we went to another one first, a hotel, and the bloke said, “Look if you come back later I’ll cut you some sandwiches,” beautiful sandwiches, and he said, “You’ll be all right.” He said, “I’ll look after ya.” But we were hungry then you know so he said, “We’ll go and see Mrs Ryan.” He barged in, they went to the same church and he must have sort of don’t know whether he got a

password or what but I tell you what, Mrs Ryan was a beautiful lady. She invited us in, she said, “Look,” she said, “go into the bar,” she said, “and have a drink on me.” She talked to the bloke and they give you some more, and they did we got a few drinks. And then when tea was ready, which was only about half an hour, she come and got us out, she said, “Come on and I’ll serve yas meself,” and she did and beautiful dinner. And then

we went and picked up our sandwiches for on the later days and we got on board another, it was a troop train really, but they were all conscripts. And we were in there and they all knew that we shouldn’t have been there, as soon as they saw us they sort of gathered that, they went and told their officers. They come down and had a look at us, didn’t say anything, they went away. Then the train pulled into Albury,

and it was freezing, it is cold up that way, absolutely freezing and the train pulled up, we’d better got off, were in here. Just as well we did the train moved in and the platform was full of military police and they went right through the train, anyhow they didn’t find us of course. And we went right round, right round to another train that was taking, cause you used to change trains there see in them days,

and we got on board this other train just as it was about to move out on the outside running board. We done the same thing again we waked in on the guard, “Where are youse coming from?” he said, and we told him. “Oh that’s all right.” But he said, “When we get to Seymour,” he said, “there’s another guard takes over and,” he said, “I don’t known what he’s like.” He said, “He might dob you in.” He said, “I don’t know,” but he said, “You’re right with me anyway,”

and we were. But Lionel had a sister in Seymour and when we got to Seymour we jumped off the train early there and he took us down to his sister’s place and she gave us breakfast and the time come for us to go and get back so we went to walk onto the main road and we had to walk past, I don’t know whether it was an old school or what it was, but it was full of provos. It was there and we just sort walked

past and they took no notice of us. We got onto the main Melbourne Highway and a Yankee ambulance was going past and we thumbed a ride and we got in with the two drivers, the two of them, and they took us right down to the Royal Melbourne, they took it over under the lease lend during the war. Took us right down to there, now we got out there and the two homos [homosexuals] went on their own and Lionel and I said

to Ray, we said, “We’ll meet in the Oakleigh Hotel,” the Junction Hotel now, the white one just outside the Oakleigh Station, and we had a couple of drinks and a bit of a yarn there and then he went his way. I’ve never seen him since, I know he’s dead now cause I tried to contact him, got onto his sisters. But I had not quite a fortnight off, Mum didn’t know I was AWL until she heard me on the phone,

talking to a mate of mine and I was inviting him out, who had joined up the same day as me but was out of the army somehow, I don’t remember how he got out but he got out, through ill health or some kind. And Mum nearly had another heart attack when she knew I was, “You wouldn’t, that’s not you. My Albert wouldn’t do that.” Anyway we had 11 days, and a nice time

you know at home, and things that you normally do. And I thought well I’ve had enough now, I wanted to go back, the Italians will be going away before so very long, I didn’t know when, but I wanted to get back.

Yeah I didn’t think they’d go in that time, cause I knew they hadn’t when I’d left up there. Anyway I knew before I left that they were taking them

at, our colonel was giving them 3 months if they reported back, he was putting them right in and they were copping it. And I didn’t want to go back to him, he’s names was Keys, they called him bunch, bunch of keys, the Japs killed that poor chap too. But anyway we got to Caulfield and I’m anticipating, and they’re taking them, and their only fining them 5 quid and this sort of thing, and letting them go for up to about a month. And I thought well I don’t mind

that you know. I got there and I said to the bloke on the gate I said, “Oh look,” I said, “I’m Ack Willy [AWL]. I want to give meself up.” He said, “They’re not taking them here any more.” I said, “You’re joking?” He said, “No.” But he said, “Go in that officer there,” and it was the major in charge of the provos there. “Yes, what can I do for you?” I told him, “How long did ya say?” I said, “Just on a fortnight.” He said, “Take another fortnight and make it worthwhile.”

“No, no,” I said, “I want to give up.” He said, “Look,” he said, “if you’re really determined to give yourself up,” he said, “go into the Old Melbourne Gaol, where they hung Ned Kelly,” he put that in. Anyway I did that and I was in the Melbourne Gaol for 2 days, and I wouldn’t want to be there any more, that was enough for me. I don’t know how they ever get out. But anyway, they took me and some others I didn’t know over

to Royal Park there and put us behind barbed wire for a couple of days and then sent us back to Brisbane under armed escort. And the trip up was quite good, the officer in charge, only a young bloke, he told us he said, “On that station there,” he said, “there’s cases of apples.” And we went and got cases of apples and shared them with the escort and everything. And the escorts were only kids, and we weren’t very old ourselves, but we

had a lot of fun with them going up there I tell ya. Anyhow we got back up there and they put me, wasn’t Boggo Road, I just forget he centre where they sent me anyway. In the morning, they said, “You’re going back to the con [convalescent] camp.” “Oh, that’s all right.” I didn’t want to go back to the colonel, he was dishing it out, he was really strict. Anyway we got back

and I was just going to go in and say what I’d done and take what was coming, but I didn’t. Anyhow they put me in a tent there under guard and lo and behold when they changed the guard, the officer that come down I knew him, I can’t remember him now but I knew him from times back here. And, “What are you doing in here?’ you know, we were quite mates. Anyhow I said, “What about letting me go into Brisbane?”

“Oh,” he said, “You’ve got to be back before midnight.” I said, “I’ll be back.” “All right, don’t let me down,” he said. “I won’t let you down.” I went into Brisbane from Coorparoo and enjoyed me self for a few hours mucking around in Brisbane, come back and next morning I had to front the chappie in charge of the con camp. And the last minute I decided I’d pitch him a story, which I did

and I forget what it was now. Anyhow he listened to me and he said, “Well Bolty,” he said, “I believe ya, I firmly believe ya.” But he said, “The returned men are causing me a lot of trouble.” He said, “We’re treating them well.” And they were, you’ve got to be honest they were treating us nice there. He said, “I’ve got to make an example, and you, Bolton, are the example.” I thought, “Dear, what am I going to get

after all?” He said, “Fined 5 pound and a fortnight’s pay.” And they forgot to take the fortnight’s pay off anyhow, so it cost me 5, and I could have kissed the old chap. I thought, “This is fantastic,” and that was it. And he said, “How are you now?” He said, “Are you fit to join your Battalion?” I couldn’t say no, cause I wanted to anyhow. I said, “Yes.” He said, “All right, we’ll arrange for your release.” And they sent me to the Brisbane Showground

where I met the chap who became my new number 2 on the gun, lives at Sale now, Ross Irvine. And we struck up a really good friendship, him and I, despite the fact that you’re friends with everybody, but we were really cobbers. And they put us on board a boat, after a few days, just took us down, no rifles no gear no nothing, cause we didn’t have anything anyhow. The battalion sailed a week or so before us

and we had missed them unfortunately. But we got on board this boat and we were the first on board, an old liberty boat, and they let us pick our own spot. We picked what we thought was the best on board and there was thirteen of us, in it but only three of us from the 14th. And we were at sea for three days and we’re just going, we’d look to see how sort of had the best meals and

we joined them, get our tucker. About the 3rd day out, beautiful trip up there if you’ve never done it, it’s glorious, all the islands there must be hundreds of them up that Queensland coast, beautiful, well worth the trip. Anyway, this particular day boat drill was on, that’s pretty strict, particularly war time, you know you’ve got to be on there for that. And

We’re playing cards as usual down where we were and down comes the CO of the boat and his crew, couldn’t believe his eyes when he saw it, playing cards when a boat drill’s on. “What are ya’s doing here?” A fellow called Bluey Conway, he’s gone too now, but he said, “Playing cards.” “Who are ya?” He said, “The 21st Brigade.”

There was three out of the 14th and the others were out of it, but there was only thirteen of us all together and 21st Brigade. Anyhow, he said, “Who’s in charge? Where’s your officer?” “We haven’t got one.” “Where ya going?” “We don’t know.” And he kept this up see, anyway he did tell one of his officers to take charge of us, we told them they just put us on board, but he must have

had to be hopping mad when he saw us down there playing cards. But anyway the officer got a lance corporal, he couldn’t get any lower to sort of take charge of us, but that bloke really done he’s job, whatever we wanted, whatever we wanted, he got for us somehow. And they give us a job then, we had to do the washing up and the cleaning, which we didn’t mind.

And this was a sergeant major, they were all corps troops the others, and he’d be singing out who’d be first to go and get their meals, Don Rs [Dispatch Rider], sigs and so on, come to us righto pride of the line, up we’d go and our turn. But they had dogs on board and everything else, and oh boy it was funny. Ross came down just a few weeks ago and

seen me and we were laughing about this particular trip, but it was a scream on board yeah. But anyway we finished up we were in Port Moresby and one of our officers was down at the wharf and we made ourselves know to him and he got us transport up to, I think it’s Koitake, a village up above Runa Falls up in the hills. And were up there, and I struck a Scotsman that knew what to do with bananas,

him and I used to go out, oh you might get about 15, 20 dozen bananas on a bunch and we got these big biscuit tins, Arnott biscuit tins, about that square and about that high, and cut them off there and pack them all neatly in it, three days and you had to go for your life. And we had three or four tins of these full, just him and I, we were giving them to everybody, we couldn’t eat them and nothing like it. And then they just, oh only a few days

And they grabbed a bunch of us, not Ross he stopped back on that occasion for some unknown reason, they didn’t call him, but they got us, and put us on the track going up. It was, you know you’d have lots of laughs even although some of its terrible, but you’ve got to have a laugh out of something or you’d go stupid. But we walked up

the track then, and no pictures ever tell what that was like. And it’s just as bad going down hill cause thump thump, your knees, and I just come out of hospital, I was as soft as butter. But I sort of hardened up a bit each day, whereas the others had been making roads and everything in Brisbane and they were tired, before they started, and some of them were knocking up, whereas I was sort of getting a bit better.

And I finished up carrying other blokes gear as well as me own, cause I was all right.

Oh a week maybe, don’t think any longer, if that.

Oh no it was….

Kolditz. Oh no no but you’ve go to do something you know, raid food dumps and all these sort of things. They have armed guards on them but I mean you can get past them, no bother.

Well, we took their word for it.

And they named blokes that, one I think name’s Best, pretty certain it was Best, and I sort of heard his name mentioned in papers and that, to do with theatres. Oh no, oh no, I’ll tell ya what, they had a story to tell.

First ever I’d met in me life. I sort of knew there was something there that these people got up to but

I’d never had any experience of anything like that in me life, as talking to that pair, they were unreal. Oh on the way down we got off in Sydney, we’d just met them then, and we met them again like in Hyde Park in that Monash Centre, whatever it was that they used to have there for us, and

we were getting……

Originally in the navy, but they had finished their navy course or whatever, and they were now in the army at the time we met them.

As far as I know yes, as far as I know, I’ll almost guarantee it.

They were fishing around I think.

Well we’d come all the way from Brisbane right down to Strathfield or something, is it Strathfield, or somewhere down that way before we sort of met them. They got on the train and that was it.

But they stayed with us till we got to, oh Albury anyway. They were with us at Cootamundra, where we got the Mrs Ryan’s generosity with the meals and that sort of thing, they were with us then. Yeah I think it would be somewhere around Albury area perhaps when

they disappeared.

No they didn’t tell us that, we didn’t know very much about them other than the fact of what they were and who the clientele was.

Yes.

Well the 18th Brigade were down at Milne Bay, 21st Brigade joined the 39th Battalion up at Kokoda.

I joined up at Manari about a week after, and then I lost all contact with them after the Japs shelled us up on that clear patch. The three of us just sort of went bush thinking that if we sort of slowly veered to the left we would ultimately come back onto the track again and with our own people.

Yeah.

All 2/14th personnel, but there was only, could have been thirty or so of us. Could have been thirty or so of us at that time, we were more or less odds and sods that I had joined, see after I came out of hospital and finished up there. The main battalion

was already there, and we were sent on after them just too sort of give them a bit of backing up for the men.

Well, I had the Bren and the other that were with us all had rifles. I, there could have been 1 or 2 Thomson sub machine guns, could have been 1 or 2 Thomson. But they weren’t particularly good up there,

because of the dirty conditions. They jammed very, very easily.

Not really, but I could hazard a guess and say around about June-ish, July perhaps.

Yes I don’t really know.

Oh yeah.

Well like I said Johnny Lee with a burst of machine gun bullets in his shoulder, Johnny Ribbo with blindness because of the bullet that hit his steel helmet. I don’t know how many others, there was walking wounded, there was a lot.

The 2/14th lost about a hundred and sixty-three men altogether, killed up there at that time. And the native boys were carrying, see they were four carrying a stretcher and I’ve got a feeling they had four others to back them up in case they wanted a rest, I’m not certain of that. But certainly it took four to carry one stretcher and they did one heck of a job. I don’t know

what we’d have done with the wounded without them.

I tell you what, it certainly wasn’t encouraging to think we were going into that. The Japs had never been beaten before and to see all of our mates, close mates, coming back as badly damaged as they were, it was

oh, unnerving perhaps, but you had to be there. Now I’m not saying I wasn’t scared a few times, but I was more scared that my mates would think I was scared, if you can understand that. I never wanted them to think I was frightened and I’ve spoken to quite a few, and there were others sort of felt the same way. I had a mate who

was killed at Gona later on, I don’t think, Phil Burns from Springvale, I don’t think he knew what fear was, don’t think he knew what fear was. I did but you’ve got to control it, fear can help sometimes.

You’ve got to hide it, it’s one of those, you’ve got to sort of control it. But it’s not as all easy said as done, done as it is said you know.

At that time, virtually nil, at

that time. I always felt our forces were very good, they had what they called situation reports, sit reps, now we were getting them, not there but back when we came back into Moresby, about Milne Bay. Now Milne Bay was the first victory that Australians ever had over the Japanese, virtually the first victory anyone had had over them at Milne Bay. But we were getting these situation reports

now the Japanese were there in big numbers, they’d landed the 18th Brigade, that’s the 9th, 10th and 12th Battalion, they were there, fortunately just a little bit ahead, not that long ahead and they were fighting, the Japs were loosing a lot, far more than we were, but they were pushing us back. And on the situation

report, it come in that the Japanese were landing, ships had come into the harbour and were landing more troops. But it wasn’t that, the Japs thought we had more there than what we did have and they were actually pulling their forces out and that’s it. On the situation reports that I had read to me, they thought they were bringing in reinforcements, but they weren’t, those ships were there and taking them out

because they thought we had far more there than we did have, and they were paying a high price. They were burying them with bulldozers at one stage, the Japanese. And it turned out that way, and I suppose it’s like a game of chess I suppose on that line, you know your move next, and depending what that move is. And the Japanese were really pushing our people back, but they didn’t know that they were

sort of winning. And I think you’ll find that what I’m saying is absolutely correct on that. Those ships when they first come in, because we did have it on the situation reports that they were going to land more troops there and it looked like Milne Bay was gone, but it wasn’t. The Japs misread the signs and it was a victory, and it’s not the first time that’s happened in war.

I don’t know that I had any expectations. I don’t know that I had any real high hopes, I just sort of hoped that we could stop them. But the way it turned out with that officer sending us up onto that patch above Manari, virtually put us out of the fight altogether.

Yes.

They were in retreat at that time. But the Japs were paying heavily for their so called games, they were taking almost a village a day at that particular time.

Yes.

Like I said the officer, Howard I think, Lieutenant Howard, I’m pretty sure it was Howard, he called for volunteers to go up on the lookout above Manari village and George Rosenthal volunteered, Mr Howard looked around, saw Ted Waters and I, and said, “You two can go too,”

so he had his three volunteers. We went up and sat there and I had told them that if they just kept their eye on that pawpaw tree that he was going to shake we’d be doing all right, cause I said, “We can’t see into that jungle looking for glasses or no glasses with us. We can’t see troops moving in that.” All we could see was our own forces coming down and moving through Manari,

as they were heading back towards Port Moresby. And first thing we knew, over come the shells and the heavy machine gun fire and we took off, George with the glasses for a moment, and then we had no glasses, in his run to get up that hill. But it was only a few yards really, but the old ticker was going like that, as you can imagine with all that fire and that just at the three

of us. We were in the open and we couldn’t see where it was coming from. And we took off and we had to lay down, well I laid down three times, I think the others did two, I was absolutely out of breath, my heart was pounding that bad, till we got into the scrub then it didn’t matter then, they couldn’t see us and that was it. And we just kept walking hoping that by slowly going around, we didn’t have a compass with us, we did have my watch,

but which would give you general directions. Which I find very good normally if you can see much of the sun, but you don’t see much of the sun up there, and it rains everyday as well, you get a lot of cloud. But we slept by a waterfall that night, we thought with the sound of the water going down, they’re not going to hear us. But likewise it could have gone the other way and we couldn’t have heard them. However, the next

day we’re sitting down resting, and in a row actually on a little bank that was by the side of this, there was no tracks really where we were, we were sort of making our own. And we heard this, well almost as if an elephant nearly coming through and we thought it’s Japanese patrol or something. So I just told the others just to sit still and don’t fire unless I do and we’ll wait and they may not see us.

Sure enough one person come through, we were still in our khakis but he was in green and the first we thought was well he’s a Jap. I was the nearest one to him, we were side by side, but I was the nearest one to him, and he turned around and I could see that it was no Jap and I said, “Come over here sport,” and he nearly died of fright, he didn’t know there was anybody near him and we were just a matter of a few yards.

Anyway he joined us, he’d told us he’d panicked when the Japanese attacked Manari, he was having a wash and he left everything but his rifle and 50 rounds, that’s all he had, and we had virtually no food whatsoever. Bit of chocolate and our emergency rations and one or two little things. Anyway the four of us then we kept going and I don’t remember whether it was the next day or the day

after when Ted Waters, the Western Australian chap, quite a bit older than the rest of us, he said to me, he sort of accepted the fact that I was in charge, I wasn’t in charge of anything, but they accepted the fact that I was. And he said to me, he said, “Well look, it’s every man for himself now Albert.” He said, “I can’t keep going like this.” He said, “I’ll come along slowly after,” he said, “and I’ll hope

that I can sort of sneak through their lines later on and get back.” I wouldn’t hear of that, I said, “We’ll all stick together and we’ll go a bit slower.” He insisted he wouldn’t do it, so I asked George, the other chappie, the Jewish fellow, would he hand over all his food, which I was doing, such as we had, and give it to Johnny. cause we anticipated, or I anticipated that were going

to be back with our own fellows within two or three days at the very latest, we didn’t really know where we were but we sort of thought we were heading south. But you can turn a complete half circle up there within a hundred yard, it’s unbelievable how you can lose your bearings. Anyway, he did that and actually he came in a day before we did, one of our patrols picked him up, virtually blind with nerves. But he told me, he said –

he was ever a friend after that, he thought the world of me and I thought that of him too. I liked him very much. But he thought he didn’t want to be on his own after that, he said, “Within half an hour,” he said, “I’d made me mind I’d try and get ya.” He said, “I found one or two little signs on the way,” he said, “but they weren’t much.” He said, “Then I lost everything,” he said, “and then I just sort of wandered on.” And one of our patrols picked him up, fortunately. And he was

in the like field ambulance type of thing when we go there. But we went on for a few days, I say a few days, time sort of doesn’t exist really, it wasn’t long, maybe even two days, and I’m walking in front. Mainly I had George Rosenthal breaking the track, cause it sort of slowed George down while the other fellow

at times wanted to lie down and die, the fellow we’d picked up on the way. But I insisted that we stick with him and take him with us, and I sort of tired George out by putting him out in front. But this occasion, I was in front and without any warning a face looked around a tree right at me, and I just couldn’t believe me eyes. I thought a Jap, and I swung me rifle on him but common sense come into it,

if he’d been a Jap I wouldn’t have been able to move me rifle, I’d have been dead. Anyway I’m looking at him and then I saw paint on his face and I thought he’s a native. So anyway he stepped out from behind the tree and in full view and he had his bow and arrow right on me, not right up but it was well on the way. And ever seen their arrows with the barbs on them?

I visualised that was in me as soon as I saw him. But anyway I said, “Cover him whatever you do,” and I said, “At the first signs of any hostility or he lifts that bow any higher,” I said, “let him have it.” I don’t know what they would have done really, the pair of them, but I went forward, gave them my rifle, and I went forward holding out me hands saying see I have nothing. I have no experience with natives, you know, and I thought, well he’ll at least see I’m not going to hurt him,

well that’s what I’d hoped, I’d only read Robinson Crusoe up to that time. Anyway, I got up to him and I started rubbing me stomach and pointing to me mouth, and I thought that’s got to tell him I want food surely. Then another one came the other side of me and he’s the same with his arrow, so I knew they couldn’t speak English. So I sang out back to them, “Take one each both of ya.” And I said, “If you fire, for goodness sake

don’t miss. But,” I said, “don’t fire unless you have to.” Anyway they were there and I tried it on the other fellow and it was no good, and I sort of stopped there for just, probably only minutes, time flies, and I backed off. I didn’t turn me back on them I walked backwards to the others and I got my rifle, and when I got my rifle I just waved me arm, waved away and they cleared off into the scrub and we never saw them again,

they just disappeared as silently as they came. But it wasn’t long after that and we saw a skull fastened in a tree. It turned out later when I was describing all this to a patrol officer that is their territory site, they are Kukukukus and he said they had killed some of our fellows, not because they’re Australians, just because they didn’t belong there sort of business and they knocked them over. But had those fellows

offered to take us back by sign language to their village, we’d have gone, we’d have thought, I didn’t know there was head hunters around us. But the other natives turns out he told me, he said, “The other natives won’t go near their territory.” And he said, “That skull you saw is one of their signs of their territory.” But anyway we got away from them. And that night we lay down in sequence, one, two, three,

I forget which was it was but the one on the right hand side as we were lying down, that was the way to get back onto this bit of a track that we’d found, but the only way we could do it. And George must have sort of dozed off almost immediately, and the fellow we picked up said to me, he said, “I’ve got to go to the toilet.” “Well,” I said, “don’t go very far.” I said, “Just get there and do what you’ve go to do,” I said, “and just come back.” And he must have touched George as he was getting over him, George shot up and fired

at him for about 2 or 3 feet, fortunately he missed. But the sound of that rifle in the dead of the night, I’ll tell ya what, it frightened the life out of me, I wondered what had happened, cause I couldn’t see what they were doing, it was pitch dark. Anyway we kept going along, and oh another couple of days and we heard these cockatoos screeching and carrying on,

we thought, well there’s something ahead that’s frightening these birds. And we struck a track, I was pretty good at finding some of them tracks, they’re almost impossible to see but I don’t know whether its nerves or something, you get a 6th sense. Anyway we going along, I took in the front and as we going along we had to bend down, it was like a tunnel with all the heavy growth and you could see where people had walked through it.

And were getting on and I saw these fellows and first I thought there was about nine or ten of them, wasn’t quite sure then, turned out to be ten, and they were there eating stuff. I just sneaked back to where I’d left the other two and I told them, what are we going to do. Anyway we decided that we were hungry, terribly hungry, what we would do

we’d slack off our grenades, which we did right there and then, make sure the pins were ready just to come out, we would thrown them and shoot whatever we could, try and grab some food and get back into the jungle. So we went back again and I was, I wasn’t far off them, I’d be within 20 yards at the very most, and one of them looked up the track,

he couldn’t see me, but he looked up the track and it’s a fellow out of me own platoon. I nearly cried with joy to get this pair off me back you know for a start, cause they were getting my nerves down as well. Oh go back a moment, just before all this happened they wanted to go down one of the rivers, and the rivers are very fast just there. Anyway we decided our bayonets were razor sharp, we’d sharpened

them back in camp, and we cut vines and we cut some of the trees down and we made a raft. And we built it all up together and we put our gear on it and we were just standing in the nuddy [naked] and we were going to just hang onto it and hoping the river would take us the right way. Anyway they started to argue amongst themselves the pair of them, and in the end I said, “Well, you fellows can swim.” I said, “I can’t.” I said, “If I get washed off

that,” I said, “I’m a goner.” And of course the rapids down, you know there’s rapids the way the water’s white where it’s hitting. Anyway we changed our whole mind, pulled out gear off, got dressed again and started to walk, and that was the end of that little episode. But when we joined those other fellows, oh it was a burden off my shoulders I’ll tell ya. And we just kept going, they just finished,

some of the native food that they’d found in a bit of a village there.

They’d been cut off, they’d been fighting actually the Japs up at Kokoda itself and they’d been cut off, much the same as we sort of were, and they were just trying to sort of find their way out. But we did have a compass after that, they did have a compass

with them, which helped a little

No, no we kept away from Manari we were heading towards Moresby but hoping we’d meet up with them long before then. Years later a doctor told me that on the left, going towards Manari and Kokoda the left hand side was north,

so yeah we would have been going west I’d say at that particular time, guessing I would say it was the west, heading west. But you sort of turn and twist and, terribly difficult.

Joined up with them. Then there was, that was where

I used to brush my teeth everyday, the four of us used the same toothbrush, and we weren’t eating and we decided we’d go in the river and walk with that rather than go through the jungle. And we up to our chest here for 2 days, the only time we came out of the water was for a rest. And you’d sit down and have a rest, and you’d rest maybe 10 minutes, quarter of an hour or so and you’d get up to go back in and your head would go

round, and you had to hand on till you sort of got your balance again. See we were literally starving at that time, cause we’d had, hadn’t had a decent food since we were even in Moresby, say. But we got up a bit of a slope this day and were all sitting down resting and there was a great scuffle and we didn’t know what it was, Jap or whatever it was. But anyway

we got, oh we’d smashed all our, earlier on we’d smashed all our rifles so nobody could use them, they were getting terrible weak the fellows, and we pulled all the grenades to pieces, thrown them away where they couldn’t be used and we just kept four sub machine guns. Henry Croton had one, Blondie Browning had one and I had one, and I don’t remember who carried the other one, but we had four. But at this time because we’d been walking in the water, we took them off

because sometimes you’d actually hit the trigger of it and the magazine would fall out and we couldn’t afford to go losing any of them. So we carried them separate, and we hadn’t put them on and we were just lying down on this hill, this rise when this scuffle took place. And by the time we got our magazines on, and there was just a grey blur as something went past, but we knew it wasn’t any Japanese or anything. And we just left on and were lying there

and lo and behold we heard it again, and this time, this chappie, George Dean from Tassie actually, he give it a burst and every bullet hit it, it was a cassowary. Well we got a fire going and 2 of us tied the animal up, or the bird up by the legs with our pull though, we kept our pull through, you know the rope that you clean your rifle with, it pulls a bit of

cotton through. Anyway we tied it up by the two legs and we skun it and cut it into pieces and the others had got the fire going and holding the meat on the end of our bayonets we roasted it. And we were eating it within, oh less than half an hour and it didn’t do any of us any good. And it took me, and I’m not exaggerating here, nearly two years to get rid of the smell of that cassowary out of my nostrils, it was vile.

But none of us died, but some of them did get bad diarrhoea over it. And then we cooked it, we cooked it, and then we decided we’d just make soup out of some of it. And we made the soup and we made the soup and we made the soup, everyday and it was like a piece of rag in the end the stuff, cause there was no goodness in it by the time we’d finished. But the next day after the cassowary was shot this 2/27th

sergeant, I don’t know his name, I don’t know that I ever did really, he shot a cockatoo and that went much the same way, we finished it off. But we kept going and day, two days I can’t remember wasn’t long, it was only about thirteen days altogether that we’d been lost, the others would be a bit more perhaps. But it was only about thirteen days for us and

we heard voices, cause in the distance we didn’t know what they were. Anyway, couple of us went forward but we couldn’t find anybody, we never found anybody, so we went back to the others and we decided as soon as the voices were on, cause they were all sick, well nearly all sick, some were quite ill. They stopped there cause night was coming on fast at this time and four of us

with the guns, sub machine guns went ahead and we found the track, but there was something there that we weren’t accounting for. We’d been told on the way up if there was only one sig wire, it was ours and we were in charge of the track there, if there was two the Japs had reached that position and put their own wire down as well. Also, there was mule

tracks along there and as far as we knew we didn’t have mules around there, apparently we did but we didn’t know it. We thought well there’s Japanese, they bought mules with them and that’s their signal wire. So we heard some yelling up the track further, we posted ourselves, there was three on one side of the track and I went onto the other and we were ready to meet whoever was coming.

And sure enough down comes some mules and they’re yelling at it, but you can’t tell what language that is. Anyway when they were nearer one of them give a great mighty swear in good old fashion English, so we knew we were all right then. Anyway we stopped them, they couldn’t believe their eyes when they saw four blokes just stand up in front of the, but if he hadn’t have yelled I think we would have shot them because we didn’t know that we had mules

and there was the two wires. I’m sure we would have let go at them, but fortunately one of them did swear in English. And they told us brigade headquarters, they had just come from there, was about half a mile up the track. So we went up there and we were challenged by the guard, but we soon let him know who we were. He let us in, the brigadier come out with all his officers and they started

to ask us all sorts of questions. Could the Japs get an army through, or a large body of men the way we’d come, we said we didn’t think so. We said, “It was terribly hard where we’d been.” We didn’t think they could possibly move many troops that way. Anyway they asked all different questions and the brig said, “Well,” he said, “look, they’ve had enough.” He said, “No more questions tonight.” He said, “Give them a feed and let them have a rest.” Well,” we said, “we’ve got other fellows back there

in the scrub.” And we tried to contact them when we knew where we were, but nobody’s answering, we couldn’t get them. Anyway Henry Croton, he actually in his pouches from my magazines, days before he’d come across some green bananas, stodged them in and they’d ripened, there’s only about five, six bananas perhaps, but he could have eaten them at night on his own

you know, cause he was starving too. No bite for you, bit for me and he shared them, and I never ever forgot that, as long as I live I won't forget that, cause when he was that desperate a situation himself he could have eaten them at night, nobody would have known, nobody I think even knew he had them. But anyway he volunteered to go back and help them find them. Sure enough they bought

them in that night, they got them, in the pitch dark. And we slept for the first time. And the next day they asked all sorts of questions about where we’d been, which was it was and all that sort of thing, and then sent us off to this convalescent spot further down the track where the others were much the same as me. We were smothered in bush, insect bites and they had to cut every stitch of clothing off me, it had

shrunk that much, I couldn’t pull me socks off I couldn’t do anything. So they cut the whole lot off and sprayed me with stuff. And we were safe.

That’s right and if they could be surrounded

No, no as far as I was concerned when he sent me up that hill, he more or less saved my bacon. We were in a desperate situation, lost, but we got in, may not have ever come back had we gone on. So many of our men didn’t come back. But no, that was my

closets encounter with the Japanese.

Where was?

Brigade headquarters……very very close to the first village on the track. Now

I don’t remember its name, I could say Effogi but I think I probably wrong there to even.

Well it wasn’t that.

Yeah.

Towards Moresby. It was the first village on the track, as far as you can go by jeep or whatever, and then that’s the first village. And brigade headquarters at that particular time

was somewhere around there.

Oh yeah.

Oh yes they’d come further than that yeah. They came further than that. They stopped and built a big base around about there

if I had a little map, I’d know as soon as I saw it, I’d know it. And later on of course, and they man handled 25 pounders up as close as they could, let the Japanese build their base and then just blasted it, and that was on the way back then. The Japs were being, from that moment were going backwards, advancing to the rear. But when I was in

hospital, it wasn’t actually in hospital, it was as good as you could get there, they, oh they were good, they were terrific. The fellows you know, the male nurses and that, there was no female nurses there at that time there. The, oh they were like angels themselves as far as I was personally concerned. But I was with them for a little while, I don’t remember how long,

and then back to Moresby back to what they call Pom Pom Park, where our base more or less was there. Base for the whole brigade was in that area. And…

No, no village no nothing, we never struck anything. Most of the villages

were on the other side of the track.

No, there was where we picked up the other ten fellows. They had got them out of a village, somewhere along that way, but we never saw that village and they were just finishing the last of the whatever it was they were eating.

No there was no villages apart from that one, but we didn’t even see that one. If it hadn’t have been for the cockatoos, we may not have found those ten fellows. But we knew there was something on when we heard the screeching and carrying on of the birds. But when I got back to Moresby, I was sort of there for quite a while. I was in

bandages from my ankles up to the groin, they used to call me Phar Lap. And that was with all the sores and that, they were trying sulphur drugs on me and everything, I got tropical dermatitis and it was quite bad for months, until I was well and truly home actually. But when we were back in Moresby itself and the main crowd come,

well we started to sort of spread out a little bit. And on one occasion we were using a Vickers just for a bit of target practice, cutting out a couple of coconut trees and there was some tracer in it and it set the hill on fire. Of course going up a hill it’s just ideal for a fire, and it just went up and over the other side and it nearly burnt brigade headquarters out. And we got a nasty letter over that, or a nasty ticking off, yeah.

But then we started to have a bit of fun then and went out and doing over the food dumps and what have you. And the Yanks put in, oh I don’t know what you call it, regiment or something or rather there, I don’t know what they were as far as soldiers are concerned. But they used to have pictures and we used to go to them and most of us finished up with a bed, we knocked the Yanks, you know those low ones that you pull out, I had a beauty.

Anyway we helped………

Oh they were at the pictures, the same as we were, but we knocked off a bit early and took the beds on the way home. We were only about a quarter of a mile up the road.

But our battalion went home there and left quite a few of us as just odds and sods. Like, I was in bandages from here down to there and the Japs were advancing on Wau and they had the 17th Brigade up there, or part of it, as was the 2nd 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Battalion. I don’t know whether they had the full battalions there or not but the

17th Brigade was at Wau. And the Japs were making their presence felt and they flew us up, just odds and sods that were left in the rear guard, to handle drome defence at Wau. And they took us up and by the time we got there in these big Douglas they, the Japs had got the drome and we couldn’t land, so they flew us

back and we were back again for about a week in Moresby. Then they said the 17th Brigade had cleared the drome and go the Japs back a bit further, so they flew us back again and each biscuit bomber, that’s the Douglas had 1 fighter plane, one to one that was it. And we had six fighters with us, I think they were Cobras, I’m not sure, doesn’t matter. Anyway, they

landed us and as we got out one of the fellows was hit with a bullet, there was a sniper down the end of the drome and he hit him, and they put him back on the plane and sent him straight off to Moresby, as the plane was returning, he wasn’t badly wounded, I don’t think. Anyway they put us around this drome defence and some of us were sick of carrying our respirators, or gas masks and we –

the army mightn’t like this bit, we threw them away, and took our chances on gas coming. We were worn out. Anyway, the Japs were pushed further back and further back and they had a Wirraway there, one of our own Australian made planes, just spotting for the artillery. And these Jap bombers come

over with their fighters, while we just sort of got out of the plane. Anyway our planes took off and the Wirraway came in, he was ordered to come could he couldn’t stand up to a Zero. Anyway the pilot and his observer got out and they were hardly out of it and away when the Japanese bomb hit the plane and destroyed it on the ground. But they pushed

the Japs back far enough for us not to worry about drome defence in any real sense of the word. And they put us over to where this little Chinese town was, China Town was at Wau and we dug in there and we put crawl trenches in and pill boxes. We were living underground and for roofing on our pill box and everything we used doors off some of the houses, they were all evacuated and we just took them. And our

beds, actually for Ross and I in particular, we had our beds were doors and we laid on them. But we went up each day then unloading planes. And occasionally, they would let us come back and do a bit around there, in fact we finished up cutting up a lot of the coffee bushes, about 20 foot wide and long, from 2 ways. And I had my

Bren facing down and then there was another come the other way, would give us a crossfire if the Japs came and tried to get across that break in these trees. We could probably handle them well with the cross fire there. Anyway, that was all right but the natives used to bring us in a lot of fruit and this Captain Hamilton, he was in charge of Don Company, he was with us there in the rear guard.

He’d come round and inspecting our pill box, he walked into it and he’s first words were, “What’s this, a fortified fruit shop?” Anyway we had to give him some of our fruit, and he went away happy. He didn’t know whether we could get to the gun but I certainly showed him it was quite easy really. And the Japs didn’t come back. Three of us went for a walk one time up the Black Cat Trail,

and just as well we went, there was a signaller, there’s a rope across it to help ya cause it’s so fast, and there’s a signaller with all he’s gear on board, and it was heavy, half way in the stream hanging onto the rope, he couldn’t get his feet down onto the ground. Well, we were able to save him and get him out of it. Then we went up the track, towards where the Japanese were, but we went up and saw some natives and that and had a look around and then came back. But then we were more or less then after that

just on emptying the planes, and stacking all the supplies. And on this particular day, this mate of mine down here at Sale, he was in the plane and I was on the ground and he was loading me and everybody else that came along, and he said to me, he said, “There’s a .45 automatic here,” he said, “hanging on the door.” I said, “I’ll swap ya places.” And I swapped places and he took my job and I came into the plane

and here’s a .45 in it holster, just what I’d been dreaming about. So I said – I took it, swapped him places again, hid it under the drum at the side of the drome and we went back to work. And while I’m doing it I thought well now if the poor devil gets shot down that’s all he’s got, he’s got nothing else. So I went and got it again and swapped places with me mate again and put it back in his holster, got out

and we carried on as if nothing had happened. And the man never ever knew that he nearly lost his automatic revolver. But they were beautiful, I used one one time and oh, they’re really something. But anyway we continued doing that, we were bombed several times. And on one occasion our transport planes were in the air waiting to come down cause you couldn’t, Wau

was on a slope like that, and you couldn’t get too many planes in at one time. And the fighters were up in the air when the Japanese came to bomb it. And I didn’t see what happened to the bombers, they dropped some bombs but didn’t seem to do much harm, but the Cobras, I think they were Cobras, Air Cobras they got stuck into the Japanese Zeros and shot three or four down which burnt on impact, they all burnt.

And the Japs just sort of took off and the bombers with them, I don’t know really what happen to most of the bombers, but the Douglas’ were still flying around and they never shot any of them down. And on another occasion the Japanese sent in a squadron of their planes, bombers, with fighters and they were going to do us over properly. We had nothing in the air, and then out of the blue come a squadron of Lockheed Lightning, and have you ever seen pictures of them?

They’re gutless wonders, there like a catamaran, you know, two fuselages, and they come from nowhere, and it was the best dog fight I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen a few. But they shot nine of them down without losing one and you see one coming down, a Zero, with a Yank following him, then the Zero after him, and it was just a terrific mix up in the air. And I don’t know what happened to those bombers either,

I was concerned about the fighters, watching them, and it was unreal, but it was well worth watching. The Yanks sort of went up in my opinion on that occasion, really went up.

Yeah, yeah got the nine. But we were there for oh a while, I don’t quite remember how long. But anyway, they called us out

back to Moresby and then home to Ravenshoe and then places up on the Tablelands, Atherton Tablelands. Home for a few days and then back up again and this time I was seconded to the newly formed – see I’d been in the cavalry, with the carriers and everything, and I suppose they thought well he’s had a bit of experience, and they seconded to me what they called the 7th

Division Carrier Company, but we never saw action as such. But on one occasion there when that big….oh American Bomber, not the Fortress, I can’t think of the name of it for the life of me….

Liberator, thank you, it was there loaded with bombs and petrol

and the, trying to think, the 33rd Battalion was getting on board all them and they were just sitting at the end of the runway, not far from the Liberator when it just, whether it was on take off I’m not quite sure, I think it was on take off, and it just exploded, and set the men on fire and their own grenades were going off and everything. There was seventy odd killed,

I think I’m correct in saying seventy odd and a lot injured. That particular day, I was at the hospital and they bringing them in by the truck load, it was pitiful to see them. And then they called for volunteers from our carrier company to take the place of them, in Don Company of the 33rd Battalion. And as soon as they put the call out most of the fellows all stepped forward, but I was

partly cripple at that time, but all me mates were going and I stepped out with them. But the CO, Major Bob Don, actually he was in charge of it, he said, “You can’t go, Albert.” I got on very well with him. I was his partner at bridge back in Moresby. He said, “You can’t go, Albert.” He said, “You’ll only be a hindrance to them.” He said, “You’re in trouble now.” He said, “You’re going off to be medically tested for a board.” So he pulled me back,

I was pretty upset at that particular time, but he was quite right. And the only time he ever sent me out on anything was when the carriers were going out and I was in charge of a carrier, and I could sort of get a ride. But he never let me do any walking where they had to go miles over those hills around Moresby. And I finished up I went to a field ambulance doctor, he was a specialist in real life,

and he examined me and checked me and he said, “There’s only one thing.” He said, “When you leave me,” he said, “go back to your commanding officer and get a conduct report because,” he said, “you’re going to be treated as a malingerer once you leave your regiment.” He said, “You can’t help it. This is what normally happens.” And it did happen to me, I got the conduct report and it’s one that anyone would have been proud to show.

But he didn’t tell lies about me, but he sort of made me look to be a really good soldier, that’s the major that was in charge of our little company. And I went to hospital and I was operated on there, circumcised there, because I’d had problems in the desert cause you can’t wash or anything. And it had just reoccurred, and they said that was the best way

I’d never get it back again that way, which I did. And while I was in hospital it came through that another hospital bit further up the track away from Moresby – actually Blamey got the 21st Brigade together, I don’t know how many others, and give them a lecture because they’d been pushed back. Told them straight out, it’s not the man with the gun that gets shot, it’s the rabbit that runs away, and we’d been

retreating. And there was only one of our officers I was told even answered that. But anyway, Blamey went to one of these hospitals, like the one I was in but further away, and they all whistled run rabbit run to him. And he wasn’t very happy with that, I don’t know what he did, I was told he slapped the ward under arrest but I would doubt that. Anyway he wasn’t happy with them when they whistled that to him. And

while I was in this other, I think it was the 5th Australian General Hospital, something like that, and he came there and he was down the other end of our ward. The wards are more or less two, one each end and nurses’ quarters in the middle, and he was down the other end and they were mainly conscripts and old militia and this sort of thing. Anyway they were cheering him and clapping him and the matron come running down our end,

“General Blamey’s coming down.” She said, “The other end’s just give him a rousing reception.” She said, “Give him one when he comes down here.” And you’d almost think that everyone of us, everyone without one default in it, when he come down never said a word, just shut their mouths. Those that were laying down still laid down, those that were standing up sat down. And I don’t think the man knew what to say, but he muttered a few words

and just out for his life. The matron came down and said, “You ought to be ashamed of yourselves,” but that’s what we felt about Blamey. He wasn’t liked, certainly not by most of the troops anyway. The ward doctor changed and they bringing the new one through and the doctor pointed me out, he said, “Oh he’s a circum…” but he said, “He’s in for a board too.” And the new doctor

turned to me and said, I was sitting on my bed, and he said, “What’s wrong with you?” I said, “I’ve got arthritis.” “How old are ya?” I said, “23.” “What?” he said, “And you’ve got arthritis?” I said, “I don’t know what I’ve got, but,” I said, “it was doctors like you that said I’ve got arthritis.” And he said, “See me in my rooms tomorrow.” Anyway I went down tomorrow and he pushed and pulled me. I could hardly walk when I’d finished with him, I tell ya, and then

I’ve never seen, I told him I said, “I’ve got a conduct report there,” I said – he virtually called me a malingerer. And I said, “I’ve got a conduct there somewhere there amongst your papers.” I said, “It will tell you what my CO thinks of me,” I said, “and I’ve never ever seen that report since.” I said, “I truthfully believe he destroyed it, but,” I said, “I don’t know.” And I said, “I wouldn’t know his name anyway.” Anyway the outcome was that through him I was made B Class [unfit for active service],

sent to Murray Barracks and stopped there for a little while, and they said they hadn’t got a job for me, that you know to be able to help them. I wrote to my boss back home and asked him if he could get me out because I was now medically B Class and out of my battalion and I said, “There’s nothing here for me any more. Could you apply to manpower for me?” Which he did but it took, oh, weeks and weeks to come through. Anyhow I was sent to Finschhafen

and to the Finschhafen sub base area, sub base you know that’s not submarines, but while we were there two Yanks wanted to come up wanting to look at the submarines, cause it was a sub base area. But anyway they wanted batmen, and the fellow before me said, “No. I’m not going to be a batman.” He said, “I didn’t join up to wash other people’s clothes,” or words to this effect. Anyway they said, “Well there’s nothing else other

than either in the kitchen or on the hygiene,” you know, cleaning the toilets and things. He picked the kitchen. Anyhow then I went in and they said the same to me, “We want some batmen.” I said, “Well, I pay others to wash me clothes every opportunity I get.” I said, “I certainly didn’t join up to wash people’s clothes and,” I said, “I don’t want the job now.” And he said, “Well somebody’s got to do it.” “Well,” I said, “I don’t want it.” And he said, and he said the same as them

he said, “There’s only in the kitchen or on the hygiene.” I said, “I’ll take the hygiene.” And I’d six black boys to give me a hand, I was just sort of supervising them. But the third fellow, he’d been a sergeant in one of our battalions, and he spoke broad English, he hadn’t been out here that long in Australia, and he tossed his, he tossed his stripes in

to do something or other. Anyway he was only a private at this time and they said the same to him and they said, “Sorry, you’ll have to be a batman cause everybody’s knocking us back.” That was two of us that had knocked it back. “So you report to…” and they named an officer. Anyway he went and laid on his bed, they booked him for it, they put him on a charge refusing to carry out an order.

Anyway, I don’t know whether he actually had to pay a fine, I don’t remember exactly what it was, but they done it again, they repeated it all. He had to go to that and he went and laid on his bed again, he said he’s not going to do it and they were going to charge him. Anyway he cleared off with one of our units that was going into action, and he wasn’t really well at that time, but he went up. But they tumbled to him before he

got into action and sent him back and I don’t know what happen to him after that, I know he came back, but I don’t remember. But anyway there was a fellow that I went to school with, I met him in Moresby on one occasion and he told me he was in some labour company and they were unloading boats. They had the CCC Corps [Civil Construction Corps] up there, that was the government crowd, but they wanted danger money and all sorts of things, so they got rid of them and

made the army do it. And he was in the company doing that and he said there going back to Australia soon. Well I applied for a transfer to get there, hoping that I’d get back soon. I got into it, I got the transfer from Finschhafen cause there was nothing for them up there, they couldn’t find anything for a sheet metal worker. And I got in there and after a little while, actually they put me on unloading boats. 16,

12 hours on, 6 hours off, I think I’ve got that right, and that’s not like 16 and 8, 16 and 8 gives you that full cycle of the day, but the other it’s a broken shift all the time. It was fairly heavy work and I couldn’t do it with me legs. So I told them I couldn’t do it, so they put me then helping an old bloke make morning and afternoon tea when they built the building that is now the RSL [Returned and Services League] building on

Ella Beach in Moresby. And while we weren’t making tea and that, I was throwing a handful of nails on the floor for him to sweep up, and he was throwing a handful for me to sweep up, and we sort of filled in time like that. Anyway my transfer came through, back home.

Yes, arthritis mainly.

Where’d it start?

In Syria it started, I think the cold in the snow and that sort of helped it. But it got worst as I got, but it didn’t impede me until after I’d done the Kokoda track business. Whether it was all up and down them steps and things and where the steps weren’t. But it was pretty bad in the end and I had to, I went for a board when I got back,

it mean stopping in the army for a few more days, but I thought I’d been in that long now it didn’t matter.

You go before a medical board to assess your problems. And there was five on it, I think it was granted and I was allowed to go, five on it, I don’t remember if it was two specialists, doctors and three legal men or vice versa. But they give me a good hearing,

and what you’d see in Cairo and all this sort of thing, they’d been in the First World War, one or two of them, and they gave me a really good hearing but they knocked me back. I got the results, boards say you’re not, not through War Service. Anyway I started, oh they said I could appeal, I appealed and the appeal come back, appeal not granted. Anyway I started paying for me own, they

were getting gold injections and everything else.

Yes, oh, there’s gold in them there arms.

It’s gold, solution. But yeah I had quite a lot, I had many courses, but it was all at me own expense. Anyway, the RSL in Springvale, the secretary, he’d known me since I was a kid, he come up one day and he went through me. And he said, “I’m going to arrange,” he said, “for you to meet

the RSL’s advocate with these boards.” And he did that. “Now,” he said, “it’s up to you, Albert.” He said, “One day you’ll be married,” he said, “and you might need that, cause,” he said, “you’re not going to get any better the way you are now.” So I kept that and the advocate had a look at me record and talked to me and said, “Oh,” he said, “you’ve got a wonderful chance here,” he said, “with what we’ve got here.” He said, “You can’t fail.”

I didn’t fail, but I got 5 shillings a fortnight. But they did accept it and I got free medical treatment for that. With the 5 shillings, I was that disgusted that I never went back for 40 years. But in the end I done a bit of damage at work, it wasn’t a lot, but they sent me to the

AMPs [Australian Mutual Provident] doctor. And I said to Isabelle, I said, “I’m going to be in trouble here,” I said, “with the insurance doctor.” I said, “He’s not going to be my way.” But I’ve never been so wrong. He could have been related to me the way he’d treated me. He said, after he’d examined me well, he said, “What you did at work,” he said, “hasn’t caused all this.” He said, “The army owes you. Now,” he said, “I’m not telling you to tell lies, but,” he said, “the truth doesn’t always help.” He

said, “You go into a doctor and he says, ‘How are you today?’ ‘Oh, not too bad today. Oh, improved,’ and that’s the way it goes.” he said, “I was the chief administration officer,” he said, “for Heidelberg Repatriation Hospital, and,” he said, “I know you’ve got to sit on their doorstep.” Well I didn’t actually sit on their doorstep, but I did go along and I finished up up to about 40% very quickly, I forget how much that is. But when I got to

Batemans Bay, oh about 30 years ago now, but I got this doctor there and ultimately after about three or four years, I suppose he called Isabelle in and had a talk with her, then he called me in and he said, “I’ll make an appointment for ya,” cause it was in Sydney. Then they used to fly you up from Moruya, beautiful trip if you ever want one on an aeroplane there. Anyway they

sent me to Sydney and I fronted their orthopaedic man, they examined me then they put me to a physiotherapist and he took me right back to the very day I enlisted, right through the Middle East, up in the islands everywhere. And said, “Okay.” He done it all. About three, four weeks later I got a letter, would I please go back, they wanted to re-examine me. I went back

and it was another orthopaedic man and another physiotherapist. Got into the physiotherapist, he said, “I’m a physiotherapist, Mr Bolton.” I said, “Yes. I saw your letters up there.” He said, “Now,” he said, “I know you’ve been through one man, but,” he said, “we can’t find one week.” He said, “There’s a week missing somewhere.” A week after 40-odd years and four and a half years in the army and a week. Anyway I said, “Well, I can only tell

you what I told him.” “That’s all right,” he said. “You go.” So I went on and we were going up the track and that and he said, “Was that on the north side or the west side?” I said, “Oh, I wouldn’t have a clue.” I said, “I wouldn’t know.” I said, “Look, if I was to tell you going from Moresby to Kokoda, it was on the left-hand side.” He said, “That’s north.” He said, “That’s all I wanted to know.” And he wrote all that down and he said, “That’s good.”

He said, “I’m pleased we got that.” Anyway he’s tracing me through and all of a sudden he stopped, he said, “Don’t go any further, Mr Bolton.” He said, “The problem’s ours, not yours.” He said, “Your story’s quite right.” He said, “There’s nothing wrong with that.” So I went home and I was granted 80% and then the doctor sent me to some more, or a few months later over in Canberra this time, orthopaedic man, and a physiotherapist. One hundred per cent my way and they made me

TPI [totally and permanently incapacitated pensioner] and they’ve been looking after me beautifully ever since.

Yeah somewhere, they couldn’t work out….

Nothing, I don’t know, I only know what they told me. And it was all over a week, he said, “We can’t sort of work that in somewhere, somehow,” a week. I was in there four and a half years and a week, after all those years.

But anyway in the end, now they do look after me there good. I owe them a lot now, they’re really good.

That’s about it I think.

That’s all right.

At Wau.

Well, I tried to hurry that cause of your time.

That’s all right.

Altogether a couple of years or so.

In Moresby, they had a few raids but they weren’t near us. One was when we were raiding a dump. We were talking to the guards and that in one of the big dumps and the siren went and they took off and went into their slit trenches and what have you and we just prowled around and looked at the goods, and what we liked and what we didn’t like. And then we came back after dark and sort of helped ourselves. And I picked,

oh they were high, big stacks, fruit salad, I thought just what we like. Anyway when we come back, we’d walked about two mile to get to it, they all went to work, they’d seen what we wanted, we got a lot of lovely stuff. Anyhow this heap of fruit salad, I went straight to it, and the cat burglar couldn’t have done better. I climbed up, you’d got to be careful cause you know

it’s quite a nasty fall if you come down. Anyway I got the top box and I daren’t drop it cause the guards or somebody would have known it, and I got it down and we carted, and we got about half a mile along the road and one of them said, “What about we try that fruit salad?” And we were already for it. So we said, “Righto,” and I opened the case you know what it was? Tinned cabbage. Oh

dear, so we just left it where it was. And within the last ten years, I’ve been looking for a fellow for a long time, years, and I thought he lived in Tassie, but anyway I wasn’t able to get in touch with him, maybe I just didn’t look hard enough. However, I got one of the latest little books from the battalion, Hockey Bennell, he’s the man I want to see up in Queensland. And we just going up for

2 months up to Cairns. And we went up and on the way back I’m going to see Hockey by hook or by crook, anyway pulled up at his address, South Brisbane somewhere there, and Isabelle said, “I won’t come in.” She said, “You talk to him. You stop and I’ll just have a read.” And I went in and we’re talking there and he said, “You know,” he said, “there’s a fellow. I’ve been trying to find him,” he said, “for goodness knows how long.” He said, “I can’t even remember his name now, but,” he said, “you

just may know. I don’t know whether you was with us this night we done a food dump,” he said, “and he got some fruit salad.” Oh, he said, “He got some tinned fruit,” he said, “and on the way home,” he said, “we thought we’d have it. And,” he said, “we opened it, and,” he said, “it was cabbage.” He said, “Was you there?” I said, “That was me.” He said, “Really?” He said, “I’ve been looking for ya for years.” Yeah, but this was marvellous you know, and I’d been

looking for him and he’d been looking for me, so yes. But we did that pretty often. Another fellow just recently died of cancer, Sandy Perkins, him and I made a brew and we made it out of sugar, sultanas, everything we knocked off in the dump, fruit juice. We give the cook the fruit and we just tipped the syrup in you know, and to top it off he used a bit of metho

and oh he got, it was a beautiful brew, nothing wrong with it, it tasted nice. But we doing in, you know what a kerosene tin is? Square you know the old ones, it took all the inside lining right off it, it was rusty as could be, all the tin had sort of come off the whole tin. But I tell ya what, it was a good brew.

Not just there, not just there.

We got a beer ration in the Middle East, I can’t actually remember one in New Guinea, can’t really remember it if we did. But Sandy and I made it and all the boys enjoyed it, oh we had almost a kerosene tin full of jungle juice.

That one wasn’t, you had to be a bit more careful in the Yanks, we have done them. They’re trigger happy

you’ve got to be careful of the Yanks, they shoot ya.

Oh, just sneak in after dark and hope what ya get is what ya want. But no, we have done the Yanks, but more the Yanks, we done their actual camps. Like when I got that bed, you can do all sorts of things. But that helps to make it, it can’t all be serious,

you know you got to try and get a bit of fun out of something.

No we never had one, we never had one, maybe somewhere along the line I don’t know. On one occasion there in New Guinea, one of our officers got a truck, took a few of the boys in during daylight. Truck going in,

loaded a great stack of stuff and took it out. But yeah, surprising. A lot of the officers do join in, quite a lot sort of just sort of close their eyes but they get kit bits, they’re not silly.

Yeah.

Nothing at that time, Sattelberg battles and that had finished. I lost a very good friend there, him and I were recommended for an officers’ course at the old Seymour Army Camp, and they were going to give us two stripes each to attend, there was a few about ten I think, in the Battalion and we were two of them. His name was Albert too, Albert Norton.

And he took it and I didn’t, I chose to go overseas, and I was ever conscious of one thing, and it stuck with me the whole time. If I was ever in charge and I had to tell men to do something, then I might not be game enough to do me self, you know. And along that line and I didn’t sort of seek, but I did a few NCO [Non Commissioned Officer] courses, I did them for what I could learn out of them,

but I didn’t take up the officers’ course. But Albert did and when we come back from the Middle East he was still in Australia, but he was a first lieutenant, he’d got his commission. Shortly after we come back here, he was sent over there, arrived there just a little bit too late for Alamein, came back with them, quickly went up, he was in the 9th Divi [Division], reinforcement for the 9th Divi,

he went up to Sattelberg and he was killed nearly as soon as he got there. You don’t know, never know what’s in store for ya, do you? Just as well you don’t. But no I – some of the things you can laugh at some you can’t, but we made it as much fun as we could.

Finschhafen.

The four of us that signed each others papers, I’m the only one. The others I couldn’t give you figures, I know a lot

got killed, but I couldn’t give you figures, I couldn’t, I wouldn’t have a clue. If I was to have the book, the little book that the battalion put out, I could go through that and tick the ones that I know and there’s quite a lot, quite a lot. But the most depressing thing I think I ever have,

and I don’t have it actually these days, but going to Canberra and looking at the names on the wall. I can’t stand that, I have to go out. I tried it but it was too much for me that. But I can talk about a lot of things and I do but there’s some things you can’t talk about, even although we’ve been through this, you haven’t heard the whole

story, nobody ever will. But I was fortunate, I came through all right and I met some wonderful people that I still see. Ross up there, my number two in Sale. There’s a fellow fairly close to him Charlie Salhstrom I went to school with him, he was in the artillery, I met him over there. But every time I see him he says, “I still remember the story about those head hunters.”

And I never in the first place, I must have met him somewhere up in the islands at that time, he was in the 2/5th Artillery. And he comes out virtually every time I see him, “I still remember those head hunters.”

No, no.

I must have told him the story way back, cause we did meet once or twice. Yeah, I must have just told that to him

and it’s always sort of stuck up here.

Well that’s pretty good.

Yes, I wouldn’t like to do it again. And if I had children, I wouldn’t like them to do it again either. It’s a pity in the last, oh since the war, in the

not so distance past, I’ve been able to help some young German fellows at work, fine fellows and there more than repaid me in various other ways and I only helped them with advice, those. I met some Italians, made good friends of them. Up at Traralgon, the one next door to us there, Italian extraction anyway, John Agostino.

We never had a neighbour like John. He was out of this world…